Getting After It

166 - The Journey of Creativity and Storytelling with Knives Monroe

• Brett Rossell • Season 5 • Episode 166

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What does it actually take to Get After It when your "it" is creative passion? That's what I dug into with this episode's guest, Knives Monroe. 

Knives is a creative director and filmmaker who has one of the most powerful stories I've ever heard. We’re talking about a journey that goes from being introduced to film by his mom—realizing "Oh sh*t, I’m a filmmaker"—to the brutal reality of being homeless after finishing his first feature film.

We talk about the fear of putting your work out there and the concept he calls "creative poverty"—the struggle many artists face trying to monetize their skills.

If you’re sitting on an idea waiting for it to be perfect, this conversation is your sign. 

Check Out Knives work: https://www.knivesmonroe.com/

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I hope today’s episode sparked something within you to pursue your dreams and unlock your true potential. If you found value in it, consider sharing it with someone who might need that same push.

Getting After It is for those who. want to silence their self-doubt. Refuse to be owned by comfort. Understand their limits are man-made and breakable. We live in a time of constant comparison. Social media drowns us in highlight reels and overnight success stories. But what most people don’t see is the grit behind it all. The reps. The quiet mornings. The sacrifices. The failures.

You are just getting started. Keep Getting After It. 


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SPEAKER_02:

Can you introduce yourself as some as if someone were introducing you?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah, brother. Thanks for that. I've never been asked for that before. Um, this is Kives Monroe. He's a creative director, filmmaker, entrepreneur, podcaster, YouTuber, jack of all trades, master of none. Um, you know, 13, 14 years ago, he was homeless on the streets living in Austin, Texas, you know, fresh off the cusp of his first feature-length film. Went from the highest high to the lowest low. And now he's gets to be a part of the Getting After It podcast. And, you know, so much has happened in between that time, going from aspiring to amateur, from amateur to pro, and here he is. Without any further ado, this is Nives Monroe. That was amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

That was awesome. That's the first time. That's how I would like it. That's how I would like it to be. There's a lot that you said in there though that we're gonna have to chat about. But yeah, thanks for doing that. Um, and that's one reason like I've really enjoyed your content and watching what you talk about on just on the internet is you know, being creative and taking chances on yourself and all the things that you've already done. Being a storyteller is something that is really important to me, and it seems like it is to you as well. And I'm curious when that began, that that time where you know you decided to tell stories. Um, and I might already know the answer. I watched you know part of your your documentary or your your course online that you put out, just being like, hey, this is a a 90-minute no interruptions of you know really how I got to this point, which again I I love. But um, I'm curious when that that point started, when you're like, you know what, I was made to tell stories.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you for asking that's such a great question. And I never get tired of talking about it because there's so much value in the come up and the origin story when it comes to storytelling. You know, it's really cool when we look at like the Steve Jobs and the Jocko Willinks and you know, these entrepreneurs, the Elon Musks. It's really cool to see where they're at, but I'd like to know where they started, like back in the garage, right? Like that's really cool to me. And so I really appreciate the opportunity to answer that. Um, out the box, I was a weirdo, you know, um, never never fit in. Um, was like the black sheep amongst my family, typical artist story. Um, and I had a really cool mom, you know, she worked all the time, but the way she look at looked after me was by renting movies for me. And so I grew up on film, that was like my first language. Uh, my first memory is watching a movie, in fact, Raising Arizona by the Cohen Brothers. I think it came out like '87. And that was my first memory. Yeah, I like came to life in like watching that movie when I was like two or three or something. And um, long story short, my mom rented me Kill Bill Volume 1 on VHS in 2004. And I watched it, I'm about 45 seconds in. And spoiler alert for Kill Bill, um, there's a scene, it starts off, you know, it's black and white, it's the bride, she's on her back. Bill puts a bullet in her head, and right before she gets shot in the head, she says, Bill, it's your baby, and then boom, cut to a title card. The fourth film by Quentin Tarantino. And in that moment, I get chills every time I talk about it. It never fails. I mean, I I got goosebumps right now. In that moment, I realize, oh shit, I'm a filmmaker. That's why I'm the way that I am. That's why I've never fit in, and that's why you know the environment just didn't really work for me. Uh in South Texas in 2004, it was much different climate than it than it is now. Now everyone's a filmmaker, everyone, everyone's got a phone, and it's it's really cool. But uh, that was my come to Jesus moment. Oh shit, I'm a filmmaker. Can we curse on this? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, no, you you totally can.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, okay. I don't want to give you more work to bleep to bleep things, but um yeah, that that that was my come to Jesus moment, and uh the first thing I ever did was make a movie. You know, uh some people start they do commercials, they do music videos, they do short films, they document a wedding. But the first thing I ever did was a three-hour feature film, and uh I didn't know any better. Yeah, it's on YouTube, it's on my website, it's called Her Doppelganger. It's not very good, but it's very passionate. You know, uh it was made on the budget of hot dogs and handshakes. And that's awesome. Movies was all I wanted to make, and all I wanted to do. I I just didn't know how impossible it was until somebody told me, yeah, it's it's it's really difficult. And I was like, oh, I guess it is. Um, but filmmaking has been my first love, and um I'm just getting back into it because you know, we I don't want to jump ahead too far, but uh, I just came back from this world of like online social media, creative direction, and it took me away from my dream and it paid the bills, and that's really cool. And it's still storytelling, you know. But uh I want to get back into my roots a little bit, and so you'll be seeing me talk a little bit more about that, I think, in the future online.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. And um, that's another thing that I like that's a great origin story, by the way. Like quit any movie by Quentin Tarantino, I I love I love that guy. He's such a great storyteller, and the movies that he does are always like that beginning scene to kill Bill where the bride gets shot, you know, it's like he's not afraid to like startle the audience and and really put things out there that people were a lot of the times. I mean, he was groundbreaking as a director, but um I can see how that would really shift your focus to be like, you know what, this is what I want to do. And making movies, um that's a that's a thing that I grew up doing. None of them were great, like they were all just stupid skits, but there's something about it to where it's like you know, we're all here trying to tell a a story, even if it's like a a dumb story with me and my buddies, you know, in junior high school doing something stupid, but um, it's it's all about storytelling and getting that message out there. And uh one thing that I really like about what you talk about is the fact that you're always pushing people to publish the ugly draft. Like, don't worry about it. And um I'd love for you to talk about that. And I I don't know, is is that what you call creative poverty, or um that's a whole different thing, correct?

SPEAKER_00:

Creative poverty to me is you know, they call this the not the creative middle class, the creative economy, right? That's what they call the modern meta of creativity and and the gig economy. Creative poverty to me is there are so many people who just haven't made one dollar in this business, and I want to get people to be able to make a living um with their fancy storytelling skills or what have you. Like, I believe if you have the money to afford a mirrorless camera, you should be able to make money, you know, paying your rent with that mirrorless camera. Like, I really I really believe that. Um, so that's creative poverty. Um, but as far as shipping content online, yeah, I call that shit posting, you know? Like, yeah, yeah. Get out of your head and start creating things. That's a big mantra for me. Um, and I practice what I preach. I I didn't post anything for 10 months this year, and a bunch of cool things happened. Like I went to China, got to see the Great Wall, and I did it for work. So filmed this really epic one hour feature um in China for this e-commerce company who recently breaking news. I haven't said this publicly, so it's on your podcast for the first time. Who recently laid me off? They fired me. They fired me. And uh for no for no reason, for no good reason, other than just the economics weren't there. I guess I was too expensive. And um, but I got to do a lot of cool shit. And so in these past two weeks of being laid off, that's probably why you've been seeing more of me. And I've been practicing what I preach. I've been shit posting, you know. Every thought that comes into my head, I I post it online, whether if it's a thread, a TikTok, a LinkedIn post, um, a newsletter, you know, subscribe to my Substack, good content at Knives Monroe. Um, whatever it is, like I got to post online. I have something to say. And I believe if you don't say anything, you're invisible online. And that is like really scary for me, being invisible as someone who has this, you know, who likes to look at himself as like a bright color and wants to stand out and express himself. If I'm not visible, that's scary, right? So you have to post online, and and so it's a good exercise. I created an ebook, it's it's on my website for free. I feel like I'm plugging. I'm sorry for being such a whore.

SPEAKER_02:

That's okay. No, I'll put all this stuff in there too, so people can click it. Like, I want it's the same thing, you know. It's it's it's what you're saying about like how you want artists to get paid. It's like I want people to share their stories and talk about what they're excited about. And I'm sure there's someone listening to this that's like, I probably need to shit post more. Like, I I have all these ideas, but I'm afraid to put them out there. And it's like, you know, sometimes you just have to overcome that fear.

SPEAKER_00:

And um, precisely. If someone's listening and they have that issue of how do I get out of my head and just start making stuff, I don't know what to post. I have a free ebook online, knivesandrow.com. It's on the home page, and it's called The Art of Shitposting. And I think it can help you get out of your head. There's some good creative practices in there. Like one thing is you know, go on your camera roll. I have like 13,000 photos and videos on my camera roll from like 2017 and on, and just make a make a carousel on LinkedIn and write a little essay, and like that could get engagement and that could just get you into flow, right? Get you out of stasis, out of this entropy of not making stuff. And all we need is momentum. Like when people are afraid to start, what they what they really want is momentum, they want to be on third base, they want to get out of the dugout. That's what they that's what they mean. So, yeah, totally, man. I'm all about that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and and that's a hard thing too, is like gaining that momentum takes a while, but once you start, it's it's much easier to maintain it. I've noticed, at least with myself. And the things that I do with you know podcasting, and there's been times where I've let it slide for a couple months and I haven't recorded anything, and it's so much harder just to get back on track and be like, okay, I gotta build this back up to where it was. And it's just staying consistent is a is a difficult thing, but it's much easier when you have that momentum. Once you once how many episodes have you recorded, sir? Uh, this is 166.

SPEAKER_00:

So you know, yeah, 90 95% of podcasts don't make it past episode three.

SPEAKER_02:

I think I heard a stat around like something crazy like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So, dude, you are in the minority of the minority of the minority. I'm so proud of you. That's a tremendous number. Like, that is great. What a what an accomplishment, you know what I mean? So you've overcome that hurdle so many times. Like, it's it's difficult to do this, you know. I I've produced podcasts for other people, and I have my own, and it is, it's like it's it's tough. It's art, it's work, you know. And then you know, your your your podcast is so awesome. Like you do the research, you know, um, you don't just wing it and the value is there, and that takes time, you know, and it's it's such a fruitless endeavor until like it pays off, you know, on a long enough timeline. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, well, I appreciate that. It it definitely hasn't paid off yet, but honestly, like I've told so many people this. Um, I would do it for free, just because I I love these opportunities just to be able to sit down and and hear people share their stories, you know, like where they came from, what excites them and and how they stay motivated when times get tough. Um you know, I I've realized that I'm just one person, and some things that I say will not resonate with others um the way that another person can say it, or through their experiences. Um and so in a way, that is like kind of my art is like how can I find these people to really get a message out there that's you know beautifully set and well put and hopefully inspires them to take action in their own lives. Um like that's what getting after it's all about. So I love your mission.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been a journey. I'm all I'm all about it. I love it, I support it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's uh it's been three three and a half years in the making, so we're still going strong. But um yeah, I mean that's one thing like I think everyone who creates content in any way, you know, it could be blogs, uh social media, it could be movies, music, anything, uh there are low periods, and those are pretty difficult. I've I've been through a few myself, but you know, you've been doing this for 20 years, I think, right? Um so I'm sure you know you've also experienced some of those low times as well. Um and you kind of talked a little bit about it in the beginning, you know, with your introduction of going you know homeless after you know having the highest of highs and lowest of lows. Um maybe if you don't mind sharing a little bit more about that time of your life, like what it was like from going to the top to where you felt like you know, pretty close to the bottom.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. I I I don't respect anybody that's never hit rock bottom, first of all. I think everybody should hit rock bottom at least once or twice in their life.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you gotta go through it at least a couple times.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, I I I by no means was a Nepo baby, but you know, I I did grow up with a single mom, didn't have a father in the house, could have used one, uh, didn't have that extra income or anything. My mom wore the pants uh and she wore the hat of mom and dad. And so she was able to get us out of the ghetto, out of the streets, get us uh into a house, a red brick house, and that was awesome. It was like the nicest house on the block. So I always felt like uh spoiled or something, like I didn't deserve that. And so after making my movie, I was like, I gotta go make it on my own. Like, thanks, mom, you took me as far as I can go because uh she wanted to kick me out the the the year leading up to that film because she would wake up at six in the morning and see me writing the script uh in the kitchen. I was living with her, I was like 23 at the 23 at the time. So she'd wake up at six in the morning and I was I was writing from the night before, and then she'd go to work, come back at six p.m. and I'm still writing. And she's she's just like, You haven't moved, like what you're pathetic. You know, she would tell me you're useless, like go get a job, you're a fucking bum. And I said, Mother, um, I swear to you, I said this. I was like, just give me a year, let me make this picture, let me make this movie, and then um you don't have to worry about supporting me. Like, I'll do my own thing. Um, she said, Okay, I'll I'll give you a year. That was 2012. Made the movie and uh decided to move to Austin. It was the closest, furthest place I can move to that was like away from my sphere of influence and my circle and my network and everybody, family, friends, everybody. Um there's a a short form documentary called Six Weeks on Sixth Street. Have you ever visited Austin?

SPEAKER_02:

I've been to Austin once, yeah. But it was for business, so I didn't Did you go downtown? I I was staying downtown, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so that's where I slept on a fire escape for six weeks. And I made a short form documentary about it. It's um it's on my website, it's called Six Weeks on Sixth Street, very proud of it. And I did vow to never talk about this story ever again, but that was just like a hook, you know. Um, so I love talking about it. It's it's cool. Um, but spent six weeks on the streets until I got a job at Walmart. And um, dude, one week in being homeless, like I was like, this fucking sucks, you know. Yeah, um, I I went from literally my movie premiere, 36 hours later, I'm on the streets, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00:

It was the highest of high to the lowest of lows. And I did it to myself because once again, I I wanted to I I think you know, thank you, mom, for helping me and putting me on third base. I felt, you know, um, but I gotta go make it on my own. And so I did. And um there's been ups and downs in between then, but what I didn't know was okay, you made a movie, so what? So what? Like go put that on your resume, go get a job. Like, there's what's the next thing?

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And so I I that was the biggest depression of my life in 2012, 2013 was that come down and starting from scratch in a in a town where I knew nobody, had no friends. It was really tough. You know, I I pride myself in not drinking, not smoking, not doing drugs. I drank for the first time, you know, um, in my apartment alone. Like I didn't know what to do with myself. I was like, what am I doing here? Yeah, um, it was so depressing. I could you don't even want to know. I mean, it was dark. You know, long story short, I I met I met my my uh my now wife, and um we started a family. I had no business having kids, but you know, we we really wanted the family together, and uh, she already had a son, a seven-year-old, and I I wanted to be his in his life and be his father, and so I wanted to create a child of my own so we could all be a happy family unit. I went, you know, one year later, um, from being homeless, we had a kid, like it's just extreme, bro. Like, I should probably I should probably say this as TMI, but it's a podcast. Um I have bipolar disorder, so there's a lot of ups and downs in my life, and my career and my creativity, like it all reflects that. There's peaks and valleys, you know, like you mentioned, there are highs and lows, and you know, um, there's certainly been many in my career that informed the creativity, but also you know, hurt it as well, harm it. And uh, but starting a family was uh was definitely a peak, you know. I just had no money and we were on food stamps, section eight housing. It was it was really difficult, you know, to to build that up. And um I and then you know, as we're on food stamps, we move out, you know, we're trying to get better, trying to grow. I'm working two jobs, whatever. Um I made another movie, another feature film, and uh that cost eight grand. And once again, have a child. Where the fuck do I come up with that money? You know, I come up with that money to make that movie. It's just like you're you know, making movies is just like giving birth to the impossible. Um that was dramatic, that was crazy. Another depression came, another high goes to another low. All that just to say, man, and this is I really want to highlight this. Um, swinging from vine to vine, and then I met Dakota Meyer. And that guy That's how I know you. Yeah, that's how we met. And um that guy put me on, man, and gave me the opportunity of a lifetime to follow him and document his life and his career, and we we told stories for two years. I I look at my career with him, uh, not that I've ever served in the military, but I have not, but it I look at it as two tours. Like my first tour with him was 2017 to 2019, and my second tour with him was in 2023. We did a podcast together called You're Human. It lasted like maybe I don't remember, 40 episodes or so. It was a fun time, and uh it was cool to like bring the band back together. He's just like you know, what the greatest asset in my life and uh the hugest mentor I've ever had, and just a phenomenal person. But uh, I thought I was hot shit, Brett. Like I thought I was really good and cool and confident, and then I met that guy and I realized I didn't know shit.

SPEAKER_02:

That's kind of how I felt when I met him too. I was like, man. And I I think at the time when I met him, I was like 22, 20, 22, 23 years old. And um, this is still something that like so embarrassing to me. But like one of the first questions I asked him was like, what was it like to be in combat? And I was like, as soon as the words left my mouth, I was like, I wish I could take him back. That was just oh man, but no, that's okay. Yeah, truly an inspirational man. Like he truly um and yeah, maybe you can talk more about like how he found you and and what that was like working with him in the beginning. Um, because it sounds like it was kind of a pivotal moment for you. It was.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, um, he him and his team put out a tweet saying we're looking for a D-Rock. Are you familiar with that term?

SPEAKER_02:

No, but it sounds really cool.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, a D-Rock is short for it's uh a synonym, I suppose, for uh for David Rock, who is a videographer. Uh they used to call they used to call him Predators, a producer, editor, director. And uh he he worked for Gary Vaynerchuk, and so he documented Gary V's personal brand, and so they put out a tweet saying, Hey, we're looking for our own D Rock. And I responded, and I was working at the sales job at the time, doing whatever I could to survive. And I said, I'll be your Huckleberry, right? And so we met, and um I thought I blew the interview, like I thought I fucking blew it. First of all, I was late, I missed the bus. Um, I had to run to like the next bus stop, and I think I showed up sweating and like 20 minutes late at this barbecue joint in Austin, which sounds so cliche, but it's true. And um I I just was radically transparent with him, and I told him, Look, man, here's what I could do for you. I can blow up your brand, but like as far as sales go, like if you're looking for a sales guy, hire a sales guy. Like, I'm here to tell stories and uh market your brand and just get you some awareness. That's all I can do. And uh he gave me he gave me a ride home the first day I ever met him. I'm a fucking stranger, he doesn't know who I am. He's meeting this kid. Who the fuck is Knives Monroe? Like, is that your real name? What is this? And he drove he drove me home, which was like a 40-minute drive. And um took me like three hours to get there from the bus. I took a day off from work to meet him. Like, it was just like mayhem, all hope broke loose. And um, you know, he I think he made me an offer later that evening. He was like, What do you need to survive? And I said, I need this amount of money. And he said, Okay, I'll pay you a little bit more than that. And uh, when can you start? And I was like, I can start tomorrow. And on my website as well is my first video I ever made for him. We shot it at Onit in Austin, Texas, Joe Rogan's joint, Mark Aubrey Marcus. I don't know if they're still in cahoots or what, but um Yeah, I think I well, I know on it's still around.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know who runs that thing now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, neither do I, but uh okay, good. We shot it there, it's dated, it's timestamped, and um first thing I ever shot for him, I have the biggest chip on my shoulder. I borrowed a camera. I didn't even have own a camera, you know, because I was broke beyond broke. Yeah, and and so we we told stories. I created a podcast for him, I created a daily vlog for him, which was the meta at the time in 2017. I got to meet all kinds of cool people. I don't want to name drop, but I did get to meet Jocko Willink, who's you know, it uh see this? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

I got good tattooed on my bicep because of that guy.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you ever met him?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I went to his muster, and so I met him for maybe like five minutes in passing, but that's who he's my Mount Rushmore of podcast guests. He's he's number one. So you'll get him.

SPEAKER_00:

You'll get him. Just stay the course, you'll get him. I promise you. I vow to you. You you will. First time I met him, I believe it. We were at the uh San Diego airport, and uh he knows that I'm following Dakota. He shakes my hand. You know, he's like the thing from the Fantastic Four, right? In the flesh. Absolutely. Shakes my hand, it's like the crustiest, rockiest like hand you could possibly imagine. And uh he he picks up my bag, puts it in the car, and looks me in the eyes, greets me like I'm a human being. It's like, what? You know, they say don't meet your heroes. Jocko Willink is everything you imagine him to be, you know, for sure. He's the man's awesome to hear. I love it. Yeah, we we we recorded a podcast together, it's somewhere on Dakota Myers YouTube channel. And so being able to sit across from him in that room, in that OG room, um, and record with him was epic. And then uh Dakota and him recorded like a four-hour pod. And being in the room I think I remember that one.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a legendary one. It's a legendary one. Being in that room was earth shattering, um, just so cool, you know. So you got got to meet all kinds of cool people. I I like to think that when I made my feature film, oh, that's when I was a professional. No, it wasn't until I started shipping content with Dakota that I really become a professional because then I could pay my bills with what I refer to as art money, you know. Like I was using art to pay my bills to cash, you know, I was cashing checks. Like that was being a professional for me. So uh yeah, I've been doing this for 20 years, but pro about eight or nine, you know. So that's awesome. Meeting him was a life-changing event, and I got to meet you and uh your partner at the time, and uh it was it's just you know, it's it's it's a gift that keeps on giving. It's it's totally a blessing. And I I talked to Dakota about a month or month and a half ago just to give him some good news. I I called my mother to give her some good news, she didn't answer. I call my brother, Jeremy, to and he doesn't answer. I called Dakota, picks up on the first ring, hadn't talked to him in like in a year and a half, maybe two. And uh he couldn't be happier for me. And it's just like, dude, like some of these guys are who they say they are, and it just inspires me. And every ounce of leadership knowledge that I have is because you know, working with these guys.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I I can say the same for myself, and I've I've barely spent time with them. It's just like the things that they teach and they they talk about it's all you know about discipline, leading by example, um, owning up to your faults when when things happen. Uh it's just being a good person, really, when it comes down to it. It's like they're teaching you how to be a good person. And you know, I think a lot of people look at them as very intense. Um, but in some like they had to be for the the reason like to protect and serve the country. Um, so I mean, that makes so much sense. And uh what a cool story. So that that finally got you off the ground and um sounds like opened up a lot more opportunities.

SPEAKER_00:

Um validated me, you know. An artist needs validation, you know, someone to believe in you. Uh it uh that's all we need sometimes is just somebody to buy your stock, you know. It gives you it puts some air in your wings.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that. It's like, hey, um, my wife and I we have this phrase that we say all the time. It's like be your own biggest cheerleader and be everyone else's too. Like cheer yourself on when you're going through the hard moments, and when someone else has success, like there's enough to go around. Like be excited for them, be happy for them. Um, I don't know. I just think with like social media and stuff, there's not that like people kind of compare themselves to others all the time and removes that human piece a lot of the times. It's like, hey, listen, we're all here together. It's let's make the most of it kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

That's such an abundant mindset. I love that. Tell your wife that knives Monroe approves. That's a great one.

SPEAKER_02:

I will. Yeah, no, she's she's helped me a lot with that kind of stuff, but uh brilliant. I want to kind of ask about your creative process. Uh let's get into it. Something that's like everyone has a different process for how they decide to create, how they brainstorm, how they think about things. Um, but I would love to hear, like, you know, from you get a concept of an idea for a movie, and then what it's like to actually go through, sit down, and and plan that out, because I don't think people understand how difficult it is to make something like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I just had this conversation. I met with the screenwriter today, we had some coffee, and I was telling I said something to him I'd never said before, which was like, I think filmmaking is easy, you know. I think you know, we can be really romantic and self-aggrandizing as a filmmaker. We're so pretentious about the process and coordinating people's calendars and schedules and getting locations and set decks and wardrobe and makeup and hair, and it's just so overwhelming. It's so much, especially at an indie level. Dude, it's a miracle. Like it is the funnest job. We're playing make-believe. Like, you know, the kids say nowadays it's not that serious. It's not, it's playtime, it's playtime, you know. And then um, is it expensive? Hell yeah, it's expensive, you know, for sure. It costs money, but um, screenwriting is just like the biggest joy. It all starts on the page, you know. Um you talk about creative process. I've only ridden screenplays where the whole story hits me at once, the whole thing. Every character, their siblings, what they wear, like minute details. Um, if a germ gets you like that, you gotta make it. Like you just because ideas don't come fully formed like that. You're lucky if you get a character name, the title of the picture, um, maybe the car that they drive, or maybe the plot, right? Like let me ask you a question. Like, what's one of your favorite movies? Ooh.

SPEAKER_02:

Um that's a great question. I mean, this might be a bad answer, but I love no such thing. The I love the dark night.

SPEAKER_00:

That's what I knew you were gonna say that. I knew you were gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02:

Really?

SPEAKER_00:

So what's what yeah, I did. So what what is the dark night about?

SPEAKER_02:

Good and evil, really.

SPEAKER_00:

Good and evil. You said it. So when the the best stories are the ones where you can tell me what it's about in a soundbite like that. You know, when you ask somebody what's it about, they'll say, Well, there's this, you know, a vigilante guy, and there's uh a district attorney guy, and there's a bad, evil clown guy, and you know, it's about the dynamics between you know politics and like moral justice. It's like, no, dude, you're telling me what the movie is. Like, I'm asking you what it's about. And you said good, good and evil. That's what it's about. You know, and when you can send synthesize. A story like that, you got something, right? And I think that's why that movie was so successful and made so much money, and it's still talked about almost 20 years later, and it just endured in the in pop culture and in the zeitgeist. It's just we still talk about it to this day. Every time you put it on, it's like it's just a it captivates you, it's arresting. Um, that is the goal of every storyteller. You know, how do we do that? And so when a when a story comes at you fully formed, you you you owe it to yourself to to tell it. And so it starts on the page. Uh, I'm in the middle of writing something right now. I have the first act complete. I I've written the beat sheet and the story structure of the second and third act of the whole thing. It's essentially um seven samurai told in a modern world. Seven samurai is like a 1950s film from Akira Kurosara. Another modern example of that sort of template is like a bug's life, you know, where it's like you have these characters who need to recruit, you know, stronger people to fight the bad guys. Like it's a very simple kind of story like that. And um, it's called the Plague Dogs, and I I cannot wait to make it. I'm gonna make it. I'll film it on a phone if I have to. But um, once you have the script, the document, the blueprint, then you can attract the hair and makeup, the locations, the actors, the cinematographers, the editors. If they really believe in the picture, they'll work at a discount, you know. Like, yeah, I believe in paying people for sure. You gotta pay actors, you know. I I pay them up front. I pay it's like evil can evil, like before they do the stunt. Like, I'm gonna pay you before you do the stunt, brother. You know? Yeah, yeah. Um, but once they believe in the page, you have that buy-in, they understand the tone. Dude, the rest is just playtime. The rest is just make-believe, it's just fun, you know, and and that's a that's a movie. And then there's a creative process for like social media campaigns and you know, how do you sell a product? And you know, there's marketing, and the that is a different creative process, it's way different. Still uh have you know has a lot to do with intention and results. Like, what is the outcome that we want here? It's different versus art, commerce and art, you know, uh it's different processes, but there's an overlap.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. No, I I I love that you said that. You know, it's it's um like you said, it's it's the it's the content that people really care about. Like obviously what's on the page is going to dictate, you know, how the story is told and and who you get involved to tell that story. Um, and it's it's something that I think about a lot with you know my podcast. And um, I journal a lot. And so like I write down just my own thoughts and certain things I'm thinking about. And a lot of the times it's not pretty, but um, it helps me understand like how I'm thinking. Uh, especially when I'm doing you know research for guests or if I'm diving into a topic on like a solo episode, I want to make sure that the content that I have is is relevant and actionable for the audience. And um, you know, that's probably one of the reasons I've been able to keep this going so long, is just because I have you know my own creative process when I when I do this. And um it's it's gonna sound weird, but yeah, it doesn't feel like work. It feels like play because it's just me like you know, thinking about okay, well, how can I how can I tell this principle of you know stoicism in a way that people will get interested and and excited to learn about it? Um absolutely just like things like that for me for me uh really work, but yeah, I think having a creative process is it's crucial. Like you have to figure out how you work and you have to figure out how your brain works, um, especially when we talk about being creative, because that's a hard thing. It's a really hard thing.

SPEAKER_00:

It comes naturally, so I I forget how difficult it can be sometimes, you know, but you're right. You gotta have standard operating procedures and you gotta have systems in place so you can do repeatable creativity for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah, and I um I've been thinking about this a lot and been throwing this idea around with with like my brother and my wife, just like getting some feedback on it. Um but I've been getting into ultra running, so you know, running uh anything over a marathon is considered an ultra marathon. And my brother and I are doing a 50 miler next uh April in Sedona. And that whole time, like I I want to document really as much as I can and try and tell the story of like I think people look at ultra running and they're like, you know, you're going far, but they don't see like actually the the difficulties within the race. Um and that's kind of what I want to have the it focus on is like let's go all the the pain and everything that that we're gonna be going through and yeah, telling that story, being like, you know, this is this wasn't a challenge, but yeah, here's what happened in the end, and it's not gonna be pretty. Like, I'm sure there's gonna be times when we're you know swearing and and yelling and saying all kinds of things, but that's part of it too, is like you know, being raw and real.

SPEAKER_00:

Um how exciting.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so let's talk.

SPEAKER_00:

Can we can we talk about that for a little bit?

SPEAKER_02:

I'd love to, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so do you have and this is the creative director in me, so sorry. Um, but do you have like um you know content and pillars and like do you have the channels and what you want to do? And do you have all that in place? I'm curious. Um I mean of course you do, but I I just want to know.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean like channels and we have or I'm I'm on YouTube, um uh TikTok, Instagram, like those kind of things. Uh so long form, probably not on TikTok and Instagram, but YouTube would probably be the one. And then I have a website as well.

SPEAKER_00:

So you follow you follow Nick Bear?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so I I really like his approach to his his process. I you know, I I can't believe how good and compelling, not just of a storyteller he is, but as a content creator he is. You know, like like he makes it look so easy. Now, I'm sure he's not editing the videos, you know. He has a team that does that, I'm sure, but he's filming them, you know, and that takes so much that that's a full-time job in and of itself. Um, so take a page out of his book and just tell those long form stories, dude. You don't even need to over-edit. Like the meta right now rewards 40-minute stream of consciousness bulk upload on YouTube. Like that would crush. If someone saw like your hour and a half like training, whatever, or you're running six miles or 18 miles or whatever your your training regimen is, um, to prepare for that. Wow, people will show up for that, dude. You know, and just be transparent and radically honest and be yourself and warts and all, and people are really gonna connect with that. And uh man, that's so exciting. I I want to be a part of that journey. I want to s I want to I want to see it. Um what's your YouTube channel?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, it's just called the Getting After It Podcast, I believe.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's gonna be on there.

SPEAKER_02:

Or getting after it is what it's called. But yes, it'll be on there.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, I wasn't sure if uh you were going to promote like your own personal brand or anything.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, getting after it is is the brand. Like that's that's kind of what it is, but um yeah, so I mean definitely need some some ideas there, but that Nick Bear, he has this documentary. Um I don't know if you heard about the event they did in Austin. I don't think it was outside Austin, but it's at their uh BPN ranch, if you've ever heard of that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02:

Um and they did like uh what's called a last man standing race where they had a group of people and just how many times you can run a certain loop that they had. Uh yeah. Yeah, it went on for like two days, and then like they had to they had to stop it because of storms and all these things. And um, he made like an hour, I think it was an hour and a half documentary, and it's on YouTube just about that, and it looks so cinematic and um like yeah, he's he's got a great team and and things going up, but yeah, mine's gonna be a lot more raw and uh not as pretty. But that's your advantage, yeah. Yeah, and I always tell myself, you know, those guys started somewhere too. And this is just my my first step, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Dude, that is so incredible, man. Like one of my dreams is to run a marathon. I really want to do that. Uh, and I have all the excuses in the world why I haven't done it. But I've had this mental thought in my head of this is morbid, but you know how it is. Um, say I get the news that my daughter, she's 11, she's uh she has a life uh ending illness, God forbid, and uh there's no cure. But the cure is you have to run a marathon today, knives. Could you do it? Yeah, I would do it. Probably take eight hours or six hours or something, but I I could do it. I would I would do there I would do it right now with no training. So it's mental, as you know, and um mental is physical, blah blah blah, but like it's just such a fascinating, like I I just wanna I wanna be at that finish line, you know. And um I I would uh talking about Nick Bear. I I did a podcast, I recorded it uh with Dakota and Nick Bear at the Nick Bear at the Bear Performance Nutrition Place at the time. Yeah. And uh there's a little mini doc. Man, everything's on my website today, but uh it's on the website, uh, knivesmonroe.com, and you'll see a thumbnail of Dakota, and the title of the video is If I don't do this, I will quit everything. And he talks about running a marathon. He did uh a Marine Corps marathon, no training. I think he ran four miles before, and he just he just you know raw dogged it, got rhabdo uh uh uh as a result, and uh well he had rhabdo when we met you. Uh that's right. That's why we split early, so it was that era. Uh little peek behind the curtain for the listeners. We we we got to meet Brett and um we were there for some business and we had to split early. Dakota just left in the middle of like a conversation to go to the hospital.

SPEAKER_02:

I know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because he didn't know he had Rabdo until he found out, but uh, and then he was like in a hospital bed for like a week after that. So he had to fly by.

SPEAKER_02:

I remember, yeah, he was like all of a sudden, like he went up to go to the bathroom and then he just disappeared.

SPEAKER_00:

Never came back.

SPEAKER_02:

And yeah, then we're like, where the heck is he? And then he called you, and then yeah, it was yeah, that was that was it.

SPEAKER_00:

But so full circle, full circle right there. If people, if people want to see that story, um they can check it out on my website, but you can also just check out Dakota, his YouTube channel, Dakota Meyer. Um, but his story about running the marathon, you know, he did it and he talked about mile 20, you know, was like such a mental hurdle, and you know, and so it's like it's so romantic to me and just so exhilarating, and I have to do it. I have so do you have any advice for me?

SPEAKER_02:

That's a great question. Uh one, you can do it. Like I was in the same boat, like I never thought of myself as a runner. Really, the only reason I ran, and you might not know this about me, but I actually have a tumor in my pituitary gland. And um it was like two years that we didn't know what was going on with me, anyways. Long story short, my testosterone levels are really low because my body doesn't produce it. Like, I thought I was dying, I was 135 pounds. Um, I went to the doctor and I was like, hey, I signed up for a half marathon with my sister-in-law, and they're like, if you run that, you will probably have a heart attack because I was so underweight for my for my height and my age. Um and that moment where the doctor's like, you're never gonna be able to run. I was like, watch me. And I just like it fueled me for some reason. Um, and I started getting healthier again. I got on like all these different medications. Um and then I just fell in love with it. Like I fell in love with the challenge and um really trying to push myself. But the advice that I didn't take myself early on was starting out slow, like starting out small and slow. So small with the distances and slow, just like go at an easy pace, like where you're able to hold a conversation, um, just get get the distance done. And uh it's it's kind of like the same with with creative processes. Like there's highs and lows. There's times where you feel like, man, I got this in the bag. And then there's other times where it's like that mental wall hits you so hard, and you're like, I don't am I even made to run? Like, this is is this a dumb idea? So it's like, you know, it's it's that same kind of process, but it's just making sure that you're like I'm staying the course, I know what my goal is, and I'm gonna do the best I can to get there. Um and just listen to your body. Like if you're overtrained, your body will tell you. Like, don't get rabbed though. That's that's not good for anyone. Um, but then also like if you feel like you're not pushing enough, like sometimes you gotta be honest with yourself and be like, you know what, I have more to give. Um, so it's it's very much experimentation in the beginning, like understanding how you feel. And um but I will tell you, my favorite running shoes are the new balance 1080s. Those are the most comfortable, like that's all I wear. Um, they're they're great. So that's probably the best advice I can give is just start out slow because if you go out too hot, like you'll hate it way sooner than you know, giving yourself you have to give yourself that time to adapt. And it's not comfortable, but it passes pretty quickly. Like, if you run for a week, the next week will be easier and and so on. So yeah, that's my advice. But love it.

SPEAKER_00:

That's sound advice, and you're a practitioner, so I trust you. Try that's that's so inspiring. Keep us updated on your journey with content. Um document your 50 miler, 50 mile marathon. 50 miles insane, dude. That's insane.

SPEAKER_02:

It's in uh yeah, in the in the mountains, so it's uh a trail marathon, and so I'm we'll have pretty views though.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you'll have pretty views. Uh I look forward to the pod where you talk about where like the dark places where your mind goes.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I've I've shared a few of those on this podcast, but um you're talking about during running, like during those long races. Yeah, I mean I uh I just ran a 32-mile race in Moab, Utah, um October 25th.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And yeah, even during those times, like your body, everything feels like it's aching because you're not just going distance, like you're going up mountains, and there's a lot of elevation change. And like there was a couple times during that race where I was like, this shit just sucks. Like I just want to be done. I love those moments because you're a sicko. Yeah, well, it's just like you know, those moments teach me uh who I really am and like if I am able to keep going, and though they're just so honest, and um, they're a rarity. Like, there's not very many times in my day-to-day life where I'm like, I just want to stop. Um, but this teaches me that like, hey, I can keep going. So yeah, I mean, definitely will document a lot of those things. And the 50 miler is almost double the distance of what I just did. So I'm sure I'll be in a lot of dark places on that one. But yeah, I'll keep everyone updated.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm so impressed. That's so cool. You're the real deal. That's awesome. Uh, I aspire to get there. I wanna I want to incorporate running into my life because I think it'll uh you know, it's good for you, but also it'll inform my creativity, man. Like it'll just keep it'll just make me sharper, you know, and better and stronger and faster and endurance and all everything all around. Um, you know, I'm a big Tony Robbins guy, and he talks about emotion is created with motion, you know, he talks about physiology quite a bit and state and you know, getting your body at an optimized state, peak state, right? And uh all that's physical. And so being able to get there, yeah. I I I've ran one mile, dude, my whole life. Like I've ran one mile twice my whole life, one mile. And um you got fresh knees. I do. I do. I like to think of myself as a vehicle that doesn't have that many miles on it, even though I I get uh 20,000 steps a day, I walk quite a bit, and but I want to get to where I'm going faster, you know? Like why spend why uh why walk for three hours when you can squeeze that into a nice 40-minute run or something?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, and and that's the thing, is like that all comes with time, you know. It's just um have you ever heard of like progressive overloading with with weightlifting and that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, is there like a similar process with running?

SPEAKER_02:

It's just basically the the same kind of thing. So it's like you know, what I like to do is I'll run like five miles, and then the last uh mile or half mile, like I'll just try and go really quick. So that's like a tempo run or a progressive run.

SPEAKER_00:

I see.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, but then just like the next time you just keep trying and doing that, and then soon enough you'll be like, hey, I can actually maintain this pace.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, so yeah, there's a lot that goes into it, but I won't bore you with all the the nuanced.

SPEAKER_00:

It's not boring, it's really cool, but I'm sure your listeners have have heard it. And uh I just keep us updated, man, because that that's the most impressive thing. I think that's so rad.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and you you gotta keep keep me updated on the the new film. I I gotta spend more time on your site checking out what all the other stuff is.

SPEAKER_00:

It's bonkers, dude. This movie's bonkers. Like it's one of those I don't even want my kids to see it. Like it's they're gonna be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know, like it's it's very exciting. It's very exciting.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey, there we go. That sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, but yeah, I uh I really appreciate you coming on and just being honest, sharing your story, and of course, um talking about creativity because it really is important. Um, you know, that's one thing I love about humans that we all share is we all love stories. Um and film is in my opinion, one of the best ways to tell stories. Like it's so visual, the audio, the actual, you know, the compelling um acts of the characters, like all those different things. Like that really like the reason the Dark Knight's so important to me is because like Heath Ledger's performance in that was unmatched. No one's ever gotten close to that guy. Um, and it's just like stayed with me, and all those different scenes, like I quote it all the time, and it's just because like it was such a compelling story. Um, so yeah, I mean, I just really appreciate your time and and for me for for coming on the podcast. And I know you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for inviting me. That's okay. I always make time for you, man. If you ever want to do it again, I'm down.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, that's the thing, is um my wife is a pilot, and so we have benefits uh and she flies to Austin, Texas. So maybe hey, next time it's an in-person one.

SPEAKER_00:

Come to the crib. Come to the crib, man. You're invited, just open the door.

SPEAKER_02:

And then you can show me rock me to barbecue spots, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I got the best barbecue spot, brother. There we go. Everyone says everyone says they have it, but my god. Yeah, I actually know it and I gatekeep it, so I'll save that for IRL.

SPEAKER_02:

There we go. Well, awesome, man. Um, anything else you want to share before we before we jump off?

SPEAKER_00:

Just thank you for this opportunity to express myself and to speak my truth. Um, I'm really proud of how far you've come and where you're going. Truly. This you're you're you're doing the impossible all the time, you know, with this podcast. I think it's like 90% never make it past episode three, and then like 98% don't make it past like episode 17 or something like that. Like you're in the minority of the minority of the minority, and so if you just stay the course, brother, like it's gonna pay off. Um, it's that meme of that excavator who's like digging, and oh, he gave up right before that he saw the diamonds. Like, it's that it's that, man. Like, that's all this is. It's a last man standing match. So stay the course. You already know that. You have a good pace, you know. Um, keep us updated. I love it. Um if if anybody's made it this far, they can support the cause by going to knivesmonro.com and uh you know just uh seeing if they like anything there that they that they you know what they're looking around. Uh you know, I got some free resources. Uh I did create a 90-minute course that I just dropped online for free. And the workbook is available for free on the website. The art of shit posting is available on the website. Uh, got my newsletter, got my podcast, it's all there on the website. So yeah, man. Uh I love you. Thanks for inviting me. This was fucking fun.

SPEAKER_02:

It was awesome, man. I I love it too. And um, I'll keep I'll put all that stuff in the show notes so everyone can go check it out. But seriously, yeah, go check out Knives Work and um help help keep creativity alive. That's really that's what we're all trying to do.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's what we're all trying to do.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, seriously, man, thank you so much for coming on. Um, I really enjoyed our conversation. And um, for everyone else listening, as always, keep getting after it.