Getting After It

139 - Michael Whittaker - From Rock Bottom to Nationals

• Brett Rossell • Season 4 • Episode 139

Share episode

What happens when everything you've trained for collides with pain, disappointment, and comparison? This is the story of Michael Whitaker, a Division I javelin athlete who didn’t just compete with a torn UCL — he qualified for Nationals.

In this episode, we unpack what it means to keep showing up when your body is broken and your confidence is shattered. Michael reveals the brutal emotional rollercoaster of injury, the quiet discipline of recovery, and the power of refining your mental game through deliberate self-talk and sport psychology.

Whether you're an athlete, a high-performer, or someone fighting a silent battle, this conversation is a masterclass in resilience, focus, and finding meaning in the grind. We explore the mental warfare of comparison, the science of technique, and the underrated magic of getting just 1% better every day.

If you’ve ever felt like giving up, this episode is for you.

Three Key Takeaways

  1. Technique matters, but consistency and mental clarity matter more. Whether you're training for javelin or just trying to improve your life, cue-bouncing — constantly changing strategies — will sabotage your progress.
  2. Injury is more than physical — it’s an identity crisis. How you respond mentally during setbacks defines whether you plateau or grow. “You can’t lose if you never give up” isn’t just a quote — it’s a survival strategy.
  3. Positive self-talk isn’t fluff — it’s a weapon. Learning to speak to yourself like a coach instead of a critic can shift everything when you're on the edge of quitting.

–––––––––––––––––-

Website: Keepgettingafterit.com
Follow on X: @bcrossell
Subscribe on YouTube: @gettingafteritpodcast
Follow on Instagram: @bcrossell
Follow on TikTok: gettingafterit_podcast

I hope today’s episode sparked something within you to pursue your dreams and unlock your true potential. If you found value in it, consider sharing it with someone who might need that same push.

Getting After It is for those who. want to silence their self-doubt. Refuse to be owned by comfort. Understand their limits are man-made and breakable. We live in a time of constant comparison. Social media drowns us in highlight reels and overnight success stories. But what most people don’t see is the grit behind it all. The reps. The quiet mornings. The sacrifices. The failures.

You are just getting started. 

Keep Getting After It. 

Send us a text

Speaker 1:

We're talking about technique. Yeah, technique.

Speaker 2:

Technique.

Speaker 1:

Well, jumping back into it. Sorry, we had some technical difficulties. Now the camera is back to normal, so I apologize. We tried, but I appreciate you bringing it. Yeah, anyways, we were talking about technique, refining technique and that kind of thing, with Javelin specifically, and this might get a little all over the place because we just stopped and can't really remember what we talked about. So everyone bear with us. But, um, in javelin, what's the most important part of the actual technique? Is it all in the legs or is it the arm itself? Like what's that?

Speaker 2:

like you know, I actually saw a really cool quote, um, from one of my idols in the javelin. His name is Thomas Roller. He's a German thrower. He did a question answer thing on Instagram and somebody said the same question, like what's more important, the upper or lower body? And he said beginners try to throw harder with their upper body and like pros. Essentially he referred to himself like at his level, because he's like that good, best of the best yeah, he's really good. And he said his level of throwers it's all like lower body.

Speaker 2:

And I believe that's true, right, so it's mainly lower body. Your legs are stronger, the throw is a reaction and your upper body is really along for the ride. Yeah, is a reaction. And, uh, your upper body's really along for the ride? Yeah, um, it just gets complicated because at the amateur level, you're focusing on technique, which means you're not doing a full run up, yeah, um. And so you're doing standing throws and you use your upper body a lot in them, and so that's where the mix-up comes. But to answer your question, it's it's lower body is king in throwing.

Speaker 1:

That makes I feel like that's with everything. Man like you and I. We were just talking at dinner like about um. Ali and I are facing some running issues. Ali specifically, I'm doing better um, but like a lot of it comes down to the technique and a lot of things that you don't really focus on as a runner like you just imagine oh man, I have to just go fast and a lot of that comes from the quads that's what you tell yourself for, like the calves, but in reality it's like the posterior chain. It's like your back, your glutes, your hip flexors, your hamstrings, like everything that you wouldn't really consider is like that's going to make me a good runner. Sounds like it's the same for javelin. So what was like an average workout like? Were you guys like doing squats or whatever, like I don't know.

Speaker 2:

Um, the routine was consistent over the years and it was, um, about four days of lifting, and then we always threw on tuesday and friday, oh nice, so we lifted pretty much every day, yeah, um, and then had those throwing days. So it didn't matter. Like we, we lifted on our throwing days, you know. So that was the consistency. That makes sense. Consistency adds up and it was.

Speaker 2:

You know, it was olympic lifts so like snatches, cleans, variety of snatches, hip snatches, snatches on a box, high or low, like we had all kinds of stuff, you know, like laser measurements to track the bar speed. Really, you have to know if you're falling within a certain range. That's crazy. That is apparently adequate for muscle improvement. I don't know, that's insane. I don't know about all that stuff.

Speaker 1:

They're looking at all the science at it. That's amazing. I've never heard out about that crap. So how did you eventually end up at BYU?

Speaker 2:

on your team. Byu was my goal, which is cool, right, the way that it happened was most of the time you have to. If you throw around 200 feet in high school, you'll. I think it's a little deeper now, like maybe 205 to 210. But 200 feet at the time you were top 10 in the country, really, or really close to it, and um. With that being said, most of the schools in utah that I wanted to attend they would recruit you if you threw 200 feet, but it seemed impossible to get in if you were below that. Yeah, so like I ended the season at 195 feet dang, really yep and then I threw 206 the week after the season.

Speaker 2:

No way really, of course I was like hitting the emails right, because I was like I'm not in high school anymore, technically, you know, but like it's a week difference. Yeah, um, none of them recruited me. And then I went on my mission and at the last like six months of my mission, um, it was a, it was a variety of reaching back out and also, um, a few reaching out to me. Yeah, um, they, they like wanted me, and so it became this game with like three or four schools and byu was holding out like I had I didn't have the best act score and so I had to take a residual one either. Dude, yeah, it was really bad, um, and, yeah, terrible act over the top of schools. So, the three schools, byu, um, I want to say local right, like it wasn't optional.

Speaker 1:

I didn't want it to be optional to to go at all, to go out, so like if I did go out, it'd be some giant school like oregon or texas, right?

Speaker 2:

yeah, um, but it was byu uvu and I couldn't decide between, like, utah state and uvu and I didn't really have. I should have then, but I didn't have weber state like in mind at all. Yeah, um, yeah, I think it's because they dropped me when I threw a pr at one track me in high school and the coach came up and said they weren't interested anymore and I was really confused. Yeah, that's weird, I just threw better.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, so I mean you ended up at BYU, which they have an unbelievable track, and field team. So I mean, we were talking about that a little bit about dinner, but what did that feel like when you got?

Speaker 2:

it. Oh, dude, like I still remember texting my coach because he was the one waiting for me to get approved. So he texting my coach, um, because he was the one waiting for me to get approved, so he let me know, and, um, he just, I can't remember exactly what he said anymore, but he let me know and like I could just tell we were both pumped and I we had like so cool we had phones on my mission in arizona, so I grabbed it and like chucked it at the couch and was just like literally jumping let's go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was so pumped about it. I was like, yes, I mean it's like every kid's dream who like gets into sports is like I want to go play for college and then eventually like go pro or whatever that is, I was, I was gonna go there in like two weeks, so it was like amazing last second, you know, like so pumped yeah, so like you have this huge thing to look forward to, um, were you nervous at all?

Speaker 1:

because, like during your mission, I mean two years of not throwing right I trained on my mission okay way.

Speaker 2:

Yep, here and there I trained and then they legalized javelin in arizona, um. So on a few p days in one area I went with the high schoolers and trained with them and actually probably had a really bad elbow issue at the time that we can talk about later. Yeah, but I trained a little bit on my mission and, to answer your question, I was pretty, pretty nervous. Yeah, I also had like a rival that was going there oh man we're like best friends now that's cool I was nervous at the time.

Speaker 2:

You know very competitive nerves.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely man, that's crazy. Javelin in arizona. Man, I'm from there and I can't. It's gotta be hellish. Yeah, just hot. Oh, it's too hot yeah, way too hot that's crazy, though. So you get off, you go to byu, and then, um yeah, how was that like?

Speaker 2:

byu is great, um, world-class facilities, yeah, right, so you have everything you need. Um, I had not had a recruiting trip before, so I didn't know where anything was, and, like my best friend now, his, uh, he, he was like showing me where everything's at. He got recruited as a junior. Oh nice, he's a beast man. He's the school record holder at byu, um, state champion and state record holder in utah, yeah. So, like he had all these recruiting trips and I didn't get to have those cause I was a late, like I threw later than he did. Um, but it was great.

Speaker 2:

Experience, man, world-class training, world-class coaching facilities. Um. What made it the best, though, is making the most of it. Like myself, you know, that's what really made the experience and the facility shine. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So. How'd you do that? Um, um, really like. I struggled my freshman year like a lot. I had trained a little bit on my mission. My technique was really good. Um, I met with a dietitian and gained like way too much weight. I didn't feel like it was going to hinder my throws that much, though, because I was way stronger, yeah, from all that weight does it have any drink like muscle builder shakes or something like that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, it was like a right. It was straight drink the protein. It's straight up a bulk man. Yeah, it was a lot. I gained so much weight. Um, it was like around 40 pounds. Oh dang, yeah, so significant. Yeah, but yeah, it was. It was I. I thought I'd do better and I didn't like, and part of the the hurt behind that was seeing my best friend Excel. Yeah, cause we are neck and neck in high school and the dude took off really like literally like, yeah, like top top 15 in the country, top you know five ever at BYU, like just just doing so well, yeah, and I was like nothing didn't make any big track meets any of the year. That's all that matters. In NCAA, track is going to regionals and then going to nationals and I didn't make, obviously, even the first one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it was tough dude, I would actually love to hear your thoughts on that, because I feel like sports is a great way to compare yourself to someone else. Yeah, like running is one of the worst ways. It's just like everyone's comparing each other to everyone and like even when you go out on a run with your friends, um, they're like dude, I don't want to run with you, like you're way too fast. And I mean I was talking to you at dinner and I was like you were telling me about the people who run like two or five marathons at BYU and I'm like I wouldn't want to go out on a run with them because they would just smoke me, you know. But it's like I think a lot of that comes from comparison. So how'd you deal with that? Like it's your best friend, you know he's doing well. You don't feel like you're doing as good. What was that like?

Speaker 2:

I mean freshman year, like during when it was happening. I fell apart Really, yeah Right. And cue bouncing is the worst thing you can do because you're just going to work on something new every time you take a throw and ultimately you never get better. When you're like not spending time on anything, yeah Right. So it's like one shot, one throw, next next.

Speaker 1:

And you're trying something new.

Speaker 2:

every throw, Every throw you're trying something new, and when you take 50 throws in practice, you tried 50 new things and so you're never going to learn if something actually works or not. You didn't make any development. So that's what I did. I was trying stuff that makes him throw far. I was just scraping for anything, so really I just lost. I went off of a path of consistency and I was just all over the place and it didn't. I didn't get any better, I got more hurt actually from doing that. Yeah, I ran into big problems, like with my Achilles tendon and like some shoulder problems, like it. Just it didn't work, yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's tough man.

Speaker 2:

Really unfocused, but you feel focused at the same time, because you're just like scrambling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you're just like scrambling, yeah, and you're like I'm gonna, I'm going to figure out how to do this, even if it takes me 50 tries. Yep, that's tough. So how'd you rein it back in like reel, back in like okay? No, I need to focus on being consistent again so, um it was, there was a few things.

Speaker 2:

Um, I feel like I lost sight of who I was. That was the first one. Um, that being like me who I was in my sport, yeah, I prided myself on being a technician, somebody who knows technique and knows what to do, yeah, and I realized I had went through a phase where a combination of things, including my friend's improvement, had helped me like scramble and lose sight of direction and knowing what to do and just like faith in myself, because along with that came no improvement, yeah, um, so I had to like rally that back into my life, which by the way, that's so hard, yeah, to like train and not see any progress.

Speaker 1:

That's one of the most discouraging things that I've ever dealt with myself, and I know so many other people do especially when you're doing your absolute best yeah it's so discouraging, trying as hard as you can, but there's so many lessons that you learned during that time. Um, but yeah, so you lost sight of yourself and, sorry, I interrupted you.

Speaker 2:

No, no, it was good. Yeah, it's definitely one of the most discouraging things ever when that happens. Um, so, along with that, I I kind of had to sit myself down and just realize who I was and what got me there. Yeah, you know, because, like I went from so much improvement in one year, come off my mission zero. Yeah, and I was like, is this a me problem? Right, like there's no way. If I was coaching someone in my situation, I wouldn't know how to help them. Someone in my situation, I wouldn't know how to help them. So, with that in mind, um, my mind became a little more like, closer to the path, and then I got recommended from one of my friends, um, at BYU, Um, she's. She became a national champion later.

Speaker 1:

Um, but she told me in Javelin Yep, oh nice.

Speaker 2:

Um, great training partner, by the way, right next to a national champion. Yeah, that's insane. But Craig Manning is a sports psychologist there and he's helped with, like some of the best ever, like he's done sports psychology for the miami heat when, like, lebron, was there. That's rad. He's steph curry, like he's renowned for his principles what does a sports psychologist do? I don't think I even know um he obviously he just taught us about like the just sports psychology, like the verbiage behind it and like what?

Speaker 2:

it is general topics about neurology, what happens to your brain when you say a certain way, like when you're speaking positive and stuff.

Speaker 2:

But the thing that stuck sticks out about his class is how you apply those things. Interesting, and that is a book that he has called the fearless mind and it a journal comes with that and it there's a certain order that you should live by, according to him, when you practice. So the book would say objective um. So if I wanted to throw like a certain distance or like achieve a certain type of technique, I was looking for yeah, or lift a certain weight, I would write it on the objective um, and it's been a while now, but um, and then you would write three um cues on how to get there. So, and they had to be two to three words at the most for me, I liked one to two, yeah, so keep it simple. Yep, if I was doing a power clean, um, I'd be like, okay, if I want to lift 300 pounds, like what's going to get me there? And I was like, okay, excuse me, okay.

Speaker 1:

Um.

Speaker 2:

I do better when my hands are narrow. So that's step one narrow, um, and then pull right up to my hip. So like, as a lot of people know, know, like if you go away from your body, it's not way harder gonna pan out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's way harder that just that cue helped me stay really close to my body and have a really linear movement. Um, so that, and then like keep that movement after I pop my hips on the bar. So and shrug, so I would. I'd think that, and as you go through those three things that are simple, um, you only think of one thing that you can do better Of those three. Yep. So, like a lot of people, there's so much to fix, so much.

Speaker 2:

You can pick out 50 things anytime you do something. And that's where Q bouncing happens. Right, it's like your brain is like trying to fix it and so you think of a hundred ways to and you have to keep that narrow. And so it would be like these are the three things you're sticking to and you wrote them down, and then you don't even think about what to do better until after, right, so you wouldn't even write in that segment until after you're done and be like what's one thing you would have changed? Yeah, and it helps you not think of all that, right, and he had some other things in there for evaluation, like what was your anxiety level or your happiness level, motivation level, because all that influences performance. So that makes sense. But those were the main ones was like what three things are you going to work on, and then what's one takeaway instead of like 50?

Speaker 1:

yeah, yeah. So do you remember the first thing you focused on with um, like trying to improve your your javelin throw?

Speaker 2:

I do, um, it's really hard to explain, but it was, um, something to do with my hip movement. Okay, um, I just in throwing. I believe that a lot of people, as they become more of a veteran, there are certain things that they do that always make them throw far and um, and they can fall back to them all the time. So anytime I got into a slump, there was like two or three things that I was like I'm not doing that, like, yeah, when I do those, I'm gonna be back, yeah, you know, and then we can continue with the improvement. Um, so for me it was like it was a hip function issue, that I was like I totally lost sight of that, cause I was trying this and this and this, yeah, so that was what one of them was for me.

Speaker 1:

I think that's, yeah, that's huge man Like I do that all the time I know there's other people out there who do that all the time Like something goes wrong and you, your brain's really good at it of being like, okay, here's everything that I could be doing better, yeah, and instead it's like okay, well, out of those things, like I don't know, you could say 50 things, whatever it is, which one's the most important and which one deserves my attention right now. Like I think that's the exercise that a lot of people need to focus on, because it sounds like you sat down and actually thought through it. Um, and a lot of times, I think, people who don't know what the next step is like for whatever goal they're pursuing, or like how to improve whether it's like the piano or running or javelin, like doesn't matter, if you're trying to improve a skill like what's the next thing that you could do now to improve your form or just help you master the technique and it takes a lot of self-reflection.

Speaker 2:

It does. So, yeah, one thing that like helped me with that yeah, um was two quotes that I like forever live by um. One of them is you can't lose if you never give up. I love that. That's huge, because, like that's how I feel about my career. I never gave up and I did well, even though I was like. It's been like a year and a half since I competed and I still don't sit well with how I did, even though I'm like, even though I'm like I can't believe, like when I step out of that mindset, I'm like I can't believe what I did, like the younger me would have like cried to do what I did and then, um, one percent better mindset, like that's a popular one, yeah, but, dude, like there's always something you can do better always even if that's like recognizing you need like a little bit of rest, yeah, like that is your leverage.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, having that kind of mindset yeah, have you read atomic habits?

Speaker 1:

yeah atomic habits. Yeah, james clear talked about that with the uh, the british cycling team. Like they just focused on getting one percent better every single day and like it doesn't seem big in the moment but over time that's going to compound and soon enough, like you will be a different player in the sport or a different human, like if it's your professional career and I love that one percent better thing. But yeah, that's huge and we can do that in all aspects of life. But like fitness is a great way to do it. Like if you're running into injuries or anything like that, figure out where you can get one percent better. If it's your form, if it's your rest, like you said, if it's your diet, like just try and nail that down a little bit. Yeah, but I I also love that first, quick, can you say that again? You can't lose if you never give up. Yeah, that's huge. That's um.

Speaker 1:

My friend brayden was just on the podcast and he he's a runner, like he's 31 years old I hope I got that right, braden, my bad um, but he told this quote where he's like his. You know he he was a little scared that you know he might leave, live a stagnant life and then he like started getting into running and all these things and, um, like he had this whole pressure on him to like try and go as fast as he can and that kind of thing. And he was in Buffalo, new York, running with his friend. He was pacing his friend, like trying to get him to get a certain time, and he recognized like they weren't on track to get the time that his friend wanted and so he was like trying to motivate him like come on, like let's go, like we can still do it if you just push a little harder.

Speaker 1:

And his friend looked at him and said, hey, failure is fine, quitting is not an option. And it's like the same kind of thing. I love that. It's like it doesn't matter if, you know, you mess up a little bit or like you didn't get the goal time you wanted. It's like the important thing is you don't quit, like to yourself or to the commitment that you made. So that's huge. I love that quote. I'm gonna have to write that one down.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's what I should do with this wall is write everyone's quotes down, that'd be sweet, all the elite quotes that come through from your podcast. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That'd be cool man That'd be, awesome, that's huge. Yeah, I mean that mindset of just not quitting Um. So yeah, I mean, how did it go from there?

Speaker 2:

Uh, from there much better, Um, in one month. I which this is significant, in javelin, by the way but in one month I made a 15 foot improvement.

Speaker 1:

I was going to ask about that Like, what's the distance? Um, like what's, if someone wants to improve their distance or their throw distance, like what's an average? Okay, I worked super hard on it. How much further am I going to get Right?

Speaker 2:

Um, if that makes sense. That's where coaching gets really important, because, um and you'll learn more about this here in a second but like I have been through almost every style of technique and like which helps me to understand everyone else's throw a lot better. Yeah, and with that, like I know like a range that people would genuine or generally benefit from from a certain aspect they adopt, yeah, from their new technique. Um, to answer your question, though, like what's a respectful distance? Um, really like at the amateur level, like in high school, what I did was really outstanding. Yeah, like 200 feet.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, top 10 in the country and double the distance, like that's insane, but in the amateur level you should. I don't know what the ranges are. They could be explosive, is what I'm saying. But when you get up to um, like there's certain thresholds after that that you'll see. At like the collegiate level and professional, yeah, we're like and we think in meters instead of feet then, but like 60 meters, um, that's like 200 feet. So in high school, that's outstanding um.

Speaker 2:

In college, a lot of people throw 60 to 62 um less will throw 64, 64 to 65 meters, there's less. But like a good chunk of the country will like, at that level, be throwing and never get past that. 66 to 67 is totally different. Yeah, way less people throw over that distance like olympian level. No, olympian is like way past that really just for like an auto mark at the olympics you're throwing like, uh, you know, like 84, 85, oh my gosh. Yeah, so like, show us how much better they are, even than like collegiate. Yeah, like d1 athletes, you know, and d2, d2 is really good, now that's amazing.

Speaker 2:

Um, but yeah, there's these thresholds where you'll just see it thin out essentially, and so you have to kind of go from there. You never know at a certain level, like how much you're improve, and you really just have to kind of know that you'll improve if you do this certain thing Right. So how did you see yours improve? The way I saw my improve, it was about two and a half three meters a year, which is still outstanding. That's like 10 to 12 feet a year.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I would work on things and I expected way more than that, but that's what I ended up getting out of it. And then, like, injuries rolled in, you know, and then that changes everything, especially like when you're hurt during a season and there is a time crunch, yeah, like you can't rest for three months and then the season's gone by. It doesn't work, you know, and then a year has gone by, right, so it's way different in that sense. Um, and the game changes there. But um, yeah, after my junior year I didn't improve because of injuries yeah, yeah, that's tough man.

Speaker 1:

Injuries are the most like. We talked a little bit about like comparison, but injuries are the most discouraging thing. So take back what I said earlier, like that is that is the worst feeling, and like I've had very minor injuries with running, but even when they come up, it's like I just get frustrated. When it's like I know what I can do, but because of whatever happened, like I can't anymore. Yeah, and yeah, we were talking a little bit like you've told me some of your injuries. Um, walk me through the first one.

Speaker 2:

Yep, uh, first one was a meniscus. This was the the the lightest one. Okay, like it was light, it really was was light. It was like you walk out the same day on the hospital on the leg, oh really yeah, and it's not like normal walking, like you're totally hobbling and like barely putting pressure on it, but still. But it was a four-week recovery, which I think because it was on the inside part of my knee that I rotate, rotate inwards when I throw it was a little about four months instead of four weeks because, like, I was physically turning, like my joint, in that direction. Oh, um, so it was like three or four months, but that one was light. And then, um, that same year, like I tore my ucl, which so on the elbow for those of you that don't know, um, that's like your acl of your elbow, geez right, and that's a, that's a massive how does that happen?

Speaker 2:

and, um, really, just from the way that your arms rose yep, like it's known as tommy john in the baseball world okay, yeah so it's like very famous. It's just that overhead movement and like all the pressure, like that's another thing you have to deal with.

Speaker 2:

When you get better, you, your body's more powerful, but you have the same joints interesting yeah, and so like all that power, like if you don't throw correctly or if you overuse, um, it's gonna play a massive role in how those get hurt. Yeah, and at between my knee surgery and my elbow surgery, I had learned a whole lot and gotten way better. Yeah, and so I did not see that one coming. Yeah, and like at all I, I came off the track meet of my life and then in practice I was just warming up and we call them pickers. It's just when you're throwing it in the ground 10 feet in front of you when you start warming up. I tore it on one of those. Like really, I had no clue it was gonna tear. Yeah, geez man, like seriously, it was the strangest thing and devastating obviously just the little things.

Speaker 1:

Yep man, so that takes you out for the season.

Speaker 2:

Um, at that point in the season, um, it was smarter to finish through, okay, because I couldn't get my year back, like get a red shirt involved. It was too deep. It was like at the end of the season, okay, and so it was more optimal to um throw through that pain and try to qualify for nationals at regionals, yeah, and then um get the surgery, like right after the season and prepare for the next year.

Speaker 2:

Was it pretty painful, way painful oh yeah every throw, it's just like very, very much pain, yeah, very much, yeah, so much pain, like for for people that don't know um, when you tear it, you will. It's like your nerve, your ulnar nerves, right there, and so it will shock all the way up to like your ring, pinky finger, um, and for me it was like the shock. Every time I threw it feels like lightning going through your arm. Yeah, and on top of that, like my, my hand was like completely numb oh, so it felt all the time yeah, you know, like when your hand's asleep and it feels like weird.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when it's like recovering from that, like when it's waking up, you get those tingles, it's like that, but they're like they hurt though. Oh geez so it was. It was really painful. That's all I'm trying to say.

Speaker 1:

Dude, that's horrible yeah, yeah, I would. Yeah, man, that's impressive. And how long was that when you played or when, you like, threw during that time? How long of a time period um, it was april to july.

Speaker 2:

Wow, actually a long ways, because at that point in the season you qualify for meets, yeah, and then the only way to keep throwing is to qualify out of that meet for another one. And I was at a high enough, high enough level that I kept qualifying for meets, yeah, and so I kept getting pushed out further and further dang. So you're.

Speaker 1:

You're still qualifying like even though you're injured. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty badass dude. I gotta say that's legit. Well, that's what it's goggins man, you get some goggins javelin goggins.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, javelin goggins. Yeah, dude, it was. I'm very proud of it. Like I look back at that and I don't know how I did that that's insane, and so you get the surgery afterwards.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um, were you worried during that time, like since you had a little bit of time to recover? How long does it take for tommy johns?

Speaker 2:

oh it's. I've seen people go lightning fast and that's like eight months, eight months, lightning fast, but man, that is like the 1% dude. Yeah, like I was talking to an elite thrower out there about this, because he went through the surgery and I had some concerns post-surgery about how things were feeling and he was telling me it's like the rule of the thirds. It's like a third of the people are going to go really fast in their recovery, a third are normal and a third are really slow. And for me, since I've had it twice I've had the surgery twice now I'm learning that for the first half of the surgery I'm in the first, like the fast thirds, and then it's very normal after that, and then it actually goes slow. So I like hit every category. So that's why I was reaching out to him though, cause I was doing stuff that, in a healthy way, I wasn't able to do at like three, four months.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, so what was recovery like? Like what was your protocol? Did you have a?

Speaker 2:

like I don't know, um, um exercise that you did all the time or what was that? Like six weeks in a cast and then, um, after they take the cast out, I mean your arm.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure, like other surgeries are the same, yeah, like an acl and stuff, but it's like noticeably weak it's tiny yeah it's tiny, it has no strength, like I remember like being in the cast still and like a big success is like being able to move your fingers. Really yep, because like what they do is they take a tendon from your forearm called the palmaris and they put that for your new ucl. That's insane, right. And so, yeah, your fingers are like really wrecked from that because the tendon's up by your hand, yeah, to your wrist, and does it not affect your hand movement that does a little bit not hardly noticeable though like mostly strength.

Speaker 2:

Okay, like the recovery and all that from um. Yeah, so a lot of that when you're out of the cast is basic, like moving your fingers, yeah, like that's literally an exercise.

Speaker 2:

We're like moving, rolling your wrist and for a certain amount of time of day and then they give you like a squeeze ball, like with a certain like weight to it, and then, um, yeah, it just graduates there slowly to like banded work and then weight lifting and then very slowly over time like into throwing movements, yeah, yeah did you make that like your new training be like okay, I'm gonna try and get back as soon as I can, because I've heard a lot of people do that.

Speaker 1:

Like when they do get injured, um, they make it their goal to just focus on the recovery piece and be like I'm gonna do all my pt exercises and they just get hyper focused on that.

Speaker 2:

so going into my senior year I realized I could not do that because I needed a balance at the level I was at to still make an improvement. Cause the question now is 12 months is a month, 12 months at my recovery is one month before season starts, oh wow, so you have to. I had to take myself back and kind of just be like how am I going to get better without throwing yeah?

Speaker 1:

that's tough.

Speaker 2:

And knowing that I'm better Right. So it becomes a mental game. It becomes way more strategy and planning and focusing on being well-rounded. So, of course, arm recovery. But a whole lot of it was totally based on, like athleticism, how in shape you are, what's your body weight strength ratio? Like yeah, is that bar in the weightlifting like we talked about earlier, really moving faster in your hand cleans? Um, like all those other variables, mobility, flexibility, everything. So it became in a culmination of like all things yeah, just that, just that's crazy man.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um, the mental battle piece. That's one thing I definitely want to focus on for a second. Like that's like we talked about, like this discouragement and everything like that. Like I can't imagine how that's difficult, but how'd you make a plan and be like, how'd you keep a positive attitude during that time? I guess is what I'm asking.

Speaker 2:

Well, you mentioned earlier that, like when you're hurt I can't remember exactly what you said, but you said something along the lines of when you're hurt, it makes you discouraged because you're not doing what you thought you could, right, right. So I'm a huge believer, like in God, yeah, and I think there is opposition in everything, and so it's like it's good or bad, yeah, and that includes like your mental, like what's, what's in your head, what, even if it's your own conscience, whatever. So when you have a good thoughts like that and you're you know you can envision yourself doing something cool, or you just you get motivated off of something you know you can do. You have to hold on to that. You have to.

Speaker 2:

I feel like those are put, those are in the good category and God gave you that for a reason, right, and that doesn't mean you can, you're going to do that, but I think there's learning and edges, all those things like involved as well. So like, for example, I always thought I could throw a certain distance. Maybe I can, but I thought I could in college and I didn't but me remembering that and sitting down and making plans to make sure that happens, yeah, um, taught me so much along the ways and it gave me that drive. Yeah, even on the worst days, right, yeah, like you have to pull something out? Yeah, absolutely One percent has to come somewhere.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, I love that man. Man, you're saying so many good things. I actually wrote an article on my website today about hope in the dark days. Like it's crucial to have that. Like you have to envision something for yourself when you're in the lowest of the lows. You have to hope for a better future, because otherwise it's just like that self-talk becomes more and more negative over time. Yeah, you start not believing that you can come back and make a comeback to where you were. You just imagine your life's going to be miserable.

Speaker 1:

Like I told you a little bit about, like when I was sick upstairs and there were a lot of times when it was like doctors told me I was dying, like they told me I might have leukemia and, um, we had no idea what was going on for two years, and it was like uncertainty after uncertainty, and I just remember I was like you know I have that same belief in God Like there has to be something good from this that I can at least learn.

Speaker 1:

And just held on to that hope for, like the future will be better and it depends on, like, how I focus on it, like I can make it um, and it sounds so cliche and it sounds really cheesy and corny, but it's like I can. I can make it the future I want it to be if I make the right decisions and like focus on the right things. Um, but it really is true and it's like you had two choices and it was I'm going to self pity and just be mad that I'm. I'm injured, like right before my senior year, your senior year or I'm going to make the most of it. I'm going to get 1% better in all these different areas and become the best javelin thrower I can be, and then also just best person, because you have the option to always give in when you face these challenges, you face these trials and the important thing is just to keep going. Like your quote, you know, it's like just don't quit.

Speaker 2:

Like keep going. I heard something else recently I can't remember who it was. It was just like a reel on Instagram, yeah, but they said they feel like they don't think happiness is real. They think happiness comes from when they're proud of themselves and the whole pitch was just that like they like hard work and that's how they feel happiness. They don't just like wake up and they're just like happy. Yeah, um, and it made me think of those days, because when you're like in the pits, that bad, like the tiniest thing you do can feel like a pretty big win, absolutely you know like you have a surgery or you're, like, hospitalized, like you're in a hospital bed, you know, like the tiniest thing can make you feel like you can do it again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and like, when you're that deep in the trenches, I guess, like that's really what you're looking for. That's why one percent is, like, so important. That's why never giving up, like will always help you win, because, like, it's not about the wind that you picture in your head. Yeah, you'll realize over time that it's just like you just won all the time. Yeah, you know, because you were doing it. Absolutely you know what I mean. So that's what it's really impactful for me 100.

Speaker 1:

It's like can you, can you be proud of the work that you did on this day, or whatever. It is like can you be proud of what you did? And if the answer is yes, like usually, you will feel better. Yeah, um, if you gave it all, you had what you did. And if the answer is yes, like usually, you will feel better. Yeah, if you gave it all you had, if you did your best, then you should be proud of yourself for that. Like obviously don't go gloating around and being like, oh yeah, I did this, but like be proud that you're trying to get better and like you're trying to progress. It sounds like you adapted that a hundred percent.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a lot of times, with the injury, injuries you have to like in my scenario, when there's a deadline, like the season doesn't change, yeah, right, it's a little different. Just because you're like I'm hurt, I'm not hurt enough to get a red shirt and not compete this year, right, how do I still get better when I'm hurt? Yeah, because, like, so much comes into play and just because your body's hurting, you're worse and there is always something you can do. Yeah, always to get better. And like I didn't improve after I threw my pr my junior year. But I look back and like, even after I got hurt the last end of that season yeah, almost every meet, I'll still almost throwing my pr the last end of that season. Yeah, almost every meet, I'll still almost throwing my PR, like with like it was, it just hurts so much to throw.

Speaker 1:

Okay, you know like it hurts.

Speaker 2:

so much to throw the torn UCL for me and um same with like the the next year Cause I toured again Right and so like that's how my senior year went, yeah, but again it's like it's a senior year and it's over. Like what are you going to do about it? Right, are you going to just stop and have a surgery that you know you have to get? Yeah, or you know, could you just do the same thing you did last time and have the same, like it was literally copy and paste the same. So did the pain increase or was it just like uh?

Speaker 2:

this time it actually hurt more um I had other issues this time that popped through like it felt like my arm was going to fall off this time. And so there's pictures of me throwing like in my last meet and I have like tape everywhere, like that KT tape is everywhere on my arm. I have like stretchy tape from the trainers and like an arm sleeve. It's just ridiculous, but that's brutal man yeah.

Speaker 2:

Making sure you still compete at a high level is possible even when you're hurt. Yeah, um, depending on your scenario. By the way, I don't know, like if you break your leg, that's totally different.

Speaker 1:

That's true, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Like if you're a runner and you break your leg. Yeah, you probably can't do that, but I mean like you know what I mean 100%. Like within, being smart, like obviously like yes, your situation was I had to get the surgery.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it's like if someone's out there and they tear their ACL or they, you know, pop their meniscus. I don't know what the term is Tear it. Um, I wouldn't advise you to go out and run. I would say get that fixed and then maybe talk about running.

Speaker 1:

But like, yeah, that's like first step in that scenario and I mean, yours is also different because you were Like it's college, but that's. I just love that mindset. It's like can you push just a little bit further? Can you hold on? Can you fight? Because I guarantee you like I hope I'm not speaking for you, but I can assume that you had these thoughts Like your body was probably like stop, oh yeah, like stop doing this to me, because I've had those thoughts on like a run, and a run like that I'm not injured on it's run and a run like that I'm not injured on it's. Like my body's just like getting beat up. You know, I'm going up that mountain. That's three miles of just pure elevation gain that I was telling you about it's like this is pure suck.

Speaker 1:

Like this, this sucks. It's horrible, um, but a lot of times it's like we just talk ourselves out of it because it's uncomfortable, and so it's like pushing past that discomfort and that's how you get one percent better. I can't imagine the mental lessons you learned during that time oh, huge.

Speaker 2:

I feel like running is like a big mental experience too, like yeah, I haven't ran nearly as much as you like. I told you like my record is in one in one go is like a 10k.

Speaker 1:

But well, to be fair, like if I threw a javelin, it would probably go 10 feet.

Speaker 2:

So sure okay, yeah, probably throw further than that bro.

Speaker 1:

I don't know.

Speaker 2:

But the hard part about javelin is the cue bouncing like I talked about, yeah, and then learning how to come back from that. But the reason that happens is because technique is so important that you could legitimately do one thing different and throw like 30 feet further, like that's a real possibility. There's people that hit random throws that go 30 to 40 feet further than ever before and they never figured it out for the rest of their career Really, and so you can see how that would mess with you. Yeah, right, how did I do that? Yeah, that's insane. And then it's obviously that it's technique, and then cue bouncing and like all these other things.

Speaker 2:

But, yeah, making a plan and not making sure like you know how to come out of those states, because I think, like you said earlier, a lot of people don't know what to do. Yeah, like how to move forward, and that includes like with a mental spiral, you know, or just how to think positive and when? Right, you know, because when you're running up a hill, hill, I'm sure, like it's obvious that it's positive if you push through, yeah, 100, but the last thing you want to do is do that absolutely you know what I?

Speaker 1:

mean like, no matter what happens, anytime I finish run, I'm always proud of what I did because, like it's a conversation with discomfort every single time. Yeah, and when I give into that I feel terrible. Like, if I'm, if I'm like, going on a run, I'm like, okay, I'm done, like, and I only get three miles or something, like I feel bad the rest of the day and usually I end up running at nighttime just like get them back, yeah, um. But if I do, to your point, like push through a little bit, I'm always like, okay, like I've earned my suffering for today, like I'm, I'm good to go, um. But it really is just mental, like, yeah, you need the legs, you need the strength there, but at the end of the day it's like, can you push? Yep, and yeah, I mean it's just. It sounds like it's the same in javelin it is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's just throwing instead of running like it's just a mental. It's really hard to do. All the time. It's a conversation with discomfort every time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah and um, like with the craig manning class again like something he's huge on are two things. One is focusing on what to do and what not to do instead of what not not to do what. Focus on what to do and not and not what not to do. Sorry, that's like hard for me to think through. Right, yeah, it sounds like something. You're good dude, but, um, that's really important and that's his whole thing with. Like the three focus on three things two to three things, yeah, and never about what you can fix until after, because you're just hyper focused on what to do. Another one that he talked about in a podcast, actually with sam taggart, when, like years ago, 10 years ago, he said he didn't even realize that, like until you look deep into the neuroscience yet that you can yell at yourself in your head and that and so like, when you're having those mental thoughts like so you start thinking of people like David Goggins and stuff.

Speaker 2:

Like when he gets into that headspace where he's yelling at himself, it's because he's trying to, he's trying to overcome the voice in his head that doesn't want to do it and, like he said that before and it's it's a true thing, like when I made it to nationals- yeah like my arm was killing me and you had to place top 12 at that meet, which is incredibly hard to do without, even with an intact arm right, because, like my pr would have barely made it right, and so I was like I have to perform my best to make this happen, um, with a pressure on you yeah, a lot of pressure, and I was doing terrible because my arm hurt, right and so.

Speaker 2:

But I remembered like those two things he said focus on what to do instead of not what not to do. And, um, I started I had these terrible thoughts right like, like dude, your arm hurts, like you're good, like you've had a good season, you know. And I'm like what am I talking about? And so I started yelling at myself in my head and then eventually, like out loud actually which is really awkward because, like people heard it, I was like pacing on the side, yelling at myself on what to do, and a lot of that was just affirming myself the things that make me throw far. Like for me, when I stay over my hips, I throw really far, yeah, and that's explanation for another time. But I'll just keep saying, like I have a good hip, yeah, I have a good hip like over and over and over, until all the noise is blocked out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, someone on the sidelines is like he does have a great hip. Yeah, like dang, look at that guy.

Speaker 2:

There were like a few comments from like the athletes later that were like that was good hit man, yeah Great. But ultimately, like as soon as I stepped in the back of the runway, I was so focused because all I cared about for like 10 minutes before that was what to do and what makes me great and I had, like as soon as it left my hand, I knew I was qualified.

Speaker 1:

I knew as soon as I like, didn't even have to watch it land.

Speaker 2:

I did, of course, yeah, yeah, like it's so powerful, and like my arm pain wasn't in my head, yeah, like none of that was going through my head anymore, because all I cared about was what makes me great and what to do, and yeah, anyways, it was just a wonderful experience. But those two things that Craig Manning teaches is incredibly vital to performance, and so yell at yourself, you know if you have to like it's helpful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean a couple of things on it like that's amazing and it goes to show that, like the consistency and the discipline that you had with Javelin paid off in the end because your body kind of just went into a flow state. It was like I know what to do here.

Speaker 2:

Gets you in the zone.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it gets you in the zone, but the yelling piece it can make or break you. I used to have a really bad, negative self-talk before Allie and I got married. She helped me a ton with it, but I would be like you piece of shit, you're the worst, lift up that heavy weight and stuff like that and I would get mad at myself all the time and it was really bad and it was self-defeating and I would listen to that really bad. But now it's shifted to the point where it's like you can do this like you've done this before. Do it again. Do it again like you have strong legs, they're long, you can go up a mountain, whatever. Do it again like and it is powerful and it sounds like you know it's that self help thing that you know sounds everyone talks about. Is like be your own best cheerleader, but that's a principle like everyone should live by. Is like if you've done the work, if you know that you've done everything that's gotten you to this point, like and you've done it correctly, then be confident in it. Like the confidence comes from doing hard things and doing them repeatedly and um, yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly what you explained, but on that piece of that reminded me of david david goggin story. I'll tell you real quick. But um so, haynes Truett Haynes' dad.

Speaker 1:

He was talking about how he ran one of his first ultra marathons and David Goggins ran with him. And Cameron Haynes makes it to the top of this hill and he's struggling the whole time and it's raining and he's freezing. So he's just talking about how the conditions were just the worst. And he makes it to the top of the hill and there's a camera guy up there and he's like hey, have you seen David? Like I haven't seen him. And the camera guy goes yeah, he just ran up the hill His shirt off, he ran like it was nothing and he was screaming to himself they don't know you son, they don't know you son. And the camera's like doing that same thing you talked about.

Speaker 2:

That's him, man, yeah.

Speaker 1:

They don't know him and he's going to prove that, but it's just like he's motivated himself during that time and that's a powerful concept to learn.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's huge it is. Yeah, like in that moment I literally remember because I prepared. Maybe I shouldn't have done this hindsight, but like I prepared myself for that exact moment the whole year, every week. So like, because, like I knew how far I was throwing and how far it takes to make it to nationals, yeah, and so I was like I and you get half the amount of throws at regionals, so it's way harder to qualify dang. So I was like preparing myself every week, every wednesday, I'd go into our annex and it was just me at that time and I'll talk to myself and I remember feeling weird about it at first because, like, verbal self-talk is even more powerful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, like what goggins was doing, like it just gets you there in the zone but I prepared for that moment and I pictured in my mind as being like a last throw situation, because I know everyone struggles when it's like this is the last chance, you know all the pressure's on yeah, all the pressure, and maybe I manifested that into reality to be the last throw, but anyways I was prepared to to speak to myself in that moment and that's what made it so, I think, so beneficial Just to know, like because I've done it every Wednesday the whole season, that I can get in that headspace when I really need to and I really needed to. In that moment I was in a lot of pain, a lot of pressure, like almost nobody gets a shot to go to nationals in their whole career and so that was a big moment for me and man.

Speaker 1:

The reps add up over time they do. Yeah, it's huge. So what was nationals like?

Speaker 2:

nationals was painful as well. That kind of seems like the similar story we, we showed up and, um, I still did pretty good. Yeah, it wasn't like a spectacular performance, like the regional how many people are at nationals? Um, only 24 dang, okay, so it's top 24 in the country that go holy cow. Um, yeah, it was a great experience. It was surreal. Yeah, like that's, it was a great experience. It was surreal. Yeah, like that's not, like there's people, man, like it's just so hard to make it.

Speaker 1:

I can imagine.

Speaker 2:

Especially when you're like right in the distance threshold that I was.

Speaker 1:

I mean, dude, you're talking about 24 people out of the entire nation. Yeah, and a lot of those guys like make it every year you know just because, like they're throwing much further. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And so you can always count on certain people, but, like that bottom half, like it's 12 people that do make it, from the east and west. Yeah, and the west side that I was on it's always like the bottom, like like seven or eight to twelve. Yeah, that fluctuate and so you like never know if you're in that range, if you're gonna make it. So, um, was that intimidating? Yeah, way intimidating. Yeah, I would lose it. I think it was too surreal of an experience to be there, though really it was hard to focus because I had worked so hard to get there. Yeah, like I was just like kind of my, my mind was at ease, yeah, and I it was really hard to like have that grit and focus because I had spent so much mental energy just to get there yeah, that I relaxed when I made it.

Speaker 2:

That's so cool. It was cool. So yeah, and dude, like I was pretty done with the season by then, yeah, Like my arm was killing me, I can imagine. So I went out and threw as hard as I could and then was mad about it, like at every single meet, yeah, and just went out though, yeah, couldn't believe it. That's awesome, man.

Speaker 1:

yeah, I mean, imagine like what a high school michael would have said, oh yeah, I would have cried, yeah, yeah, even like I mentioned that earlier. But like I for sure would have cried if I could. 100, if you saw, like the journey that you were going to go on, but that that only came from showing up, being consistent, being disciplined, learning and like focusing on what you could tweak, and stuff like that. That's, that's amazing. What a cool story. A cool story Like that's even during injury, dude, yeah, like not a lot of people do that.

Speaker 1:

Pain is something everyone wants to avoid. Um, but like I don't know, I talk about this concept of unchosen versus chosen suffering, and unchosen suffering is obviously like what life throws at you, so like if a loved one gets sick or like you lose your job, things that are really hard to deal with. But chosen suffering is I'm going to go and I'm going to work hard in the gym, or like I'm going to focus hard and do all I can to get better at javelin, and it's like putting yourself in uncomfortable and difficult situations. So when those times come up, it's like you know, I know how to get through hard things. This is not great, but at least I can do it and, um, like that's a huge thing. It's like people just trying to avoid pain, the fact that you leaned into it, and you're like hey, I only have I got nationals left. I'm going to give it my best shot. I'll get the surgery when I'm done, but I don't care until then. That's amazing man. It's freaking cool. Thank you, appreciate that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, dude, I mean that's, that's like such a like an inspiring story Like so many people could listen to and be like okay, well, you know what's? What's the javelin in my life? The quote-unquote javelin like is it my job? Like, do I want to get better there? If so, it's like okay, well, let's think of the top three things that I could focus on and like go through the motions and see which one I need to work on, or like whatever it is.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, I think it just shows that, like all the different setbacks you had and the challenges that came during the, the actual seasons, like it doesn't matter, you can still make it to nationals. Like I think that's a huge thing, that like you're gonna go through challenges no matter what you do in life, and it's how you handle them. Like I said, like you had plenty of reasons to be like I'm done, like I I want the out. I just tore my pcl a second time, like what the heck like? But no, it's like I'm gonna fight this thing. I'm gonna go as hard as I can, that's huge dude.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yeah, you gotta find a way, gotta find a way. There's always a way, even if that's getting surgery right away, for people that get motivated to. Yeah, if you have a serious enough injury, please get surgery. Yeah, I mean obviously like. But you all understand what he said yeah, it's a.

Speaker 1:

It's a different situation. Like, yeah, you had different situation. Like there are people out there that just need to address some issues when it comes up.

Speaker 2:

I've just known people before. That's why I say that I've known people before and just like, have a terrible injury and they still power through it and I'm like, please get your surgery right yeah, it's like you're gonna add you know you're gonna cause permanent damage, yeah, so it's changed my life forever, though, to add on to that, really Forever.

Speaker 2:

Yep, when college ended, I got into sales and it was different, because I'm not throwing javelin, yeah, but the same thing in the sense that one of my coworkers who's been in sales for a long time, he's coming to me. He's like how are you going to be he's like, just think of it differently an all-american in this. How are you gonna? You know, if you have like an injury, how are you gonna do it in this? And I was like that mind shift. Yeah, I was just like, oh, that's perfect 100. So immediately it was like studying, figuring it out, like going through my steps, finding the pitch.

Speaker 2:

You know, like all, day when I'm making calls it's like I'm trying to do this, yeah, you know on every call. So it's just been life-changing and I don't think I'd be the same without it. Man, like I'm so grateful, like it sucks to say like I'm grateful I got hurt and couldn't accomplish what I wanted to.

Speaker 1:

But that's life, man yeah I mean, I think finding the gratitude in those moments is like what makes them valuable. It's like what I was telling you upstairs, like when I was sick and I was told that I would never run, and like I would have a heart attack if I did. But now it's like I'm I'm healthy again, like I'm back to where I kind of used to be in terms of my weight in college and like that just gives you a lot of power to be like. You know what. I know what it's like to not be able to do it and I'm grateful for the opportunity I have to keep going, even though if I'm like I still have some health issues, which I do, um, but like you know it's, it's, that is life. Like you said, it's going to be full of challenges. Yeah, I agree, that's cool man. I mean now you're like coaching. Let's talk about the social media piece for a second Um, you started a javelin page.

Speaker 2:

Yep, I've always had my page kind of dedicated to javelin, right Like post a video of me training here and there.

Speaker 2:

Um, I've always, always felt like I've just learned so much, like I've went through almost every style of technique in that, bouncing around to try to figure it out, and I've really become accustomed and in tune to different styles and what they feel like. Like the better you get, the more you learn what a good throw feels like yeah, cause there's what it looks like and then feeling is totally different because you're playing around with reaction and elasticity instead of just like screenshot, right, um, anyways, I've been through so much and I've always felt like, um, I've been really good at helping people get through what they go through. When I watch somebody throw, I know exactly how it feels. I know what it feels like to take their throw. That's crazy and that's my advantage. I know I know how to help people, um, the best that that I can, because I feel like I understand their throat because of what I've went through. Yeah, you know, and I've went through a lot and still accomplish a lot, and I want to help them do the same.

Speaker 2:

Like I get pumped, dude, when I'm helping someone and they accomplish something, Like I lose my mind because, like I know what it's like when they improve yeah, you know, and they do like it know what it's like when they improve, you know, and they do too, Like it's just so great. But yeah, I've started a page, or dedicated my page at least, to it, and that's kind of where that that passion is going to funnel through now. You know, like I'm post collegiate now and I've learned a lot and I just don't want all that information to die.

Speaker 1:

It should be shared. I mean, I um, I love that you just said passion, because like it really is a passion. And cameron haynes, going back to running, but I'm reading his book. It's called undeniable so good, yeah, have you read it? Yeah, so good, so good. But in that book he talks about passion and he says people think they have passion but they don't, because passion is that you're willing to suffer for the thing that you love and like perfect example, dude you're doing two seasons with like a torn PCL, like that's going to suck and you're suffering during that time.

Speaker 1:

but it's because you love the sport and you want to get better and it's like, yeah, don't let that die. Like feed other people that and it's like I can't imagine how. Like feed other people that and it's like I can't imagine how gratifying that is. Like I've learned all this and I want to help other people get even better than I was.

Speaker 2:

like that's so cool the key, like to me to build on that like. What makes me more pumped is like um, continual learning too. Yeah, you know what know what I mean? Like, um, I love figuring out the event more and more. That's something that I can't stay away from my mind. My mind is so intrigued to figure out throws, um, and what people do and how that might feel or how this movement might work, that as I continually coach or hear other coaches opinions on things or drills on why they should do them or why they shouldn't, like I, I just continue to grow with it too, and so I learned that my, my passion is not only just like figuring stuff out, yeah, but it's like also the throwing attached to that. So, like, I may not throw it all, yeah, but helping someone figure something out like makes me just as excited, you know that's huge that's it's like multiple passion avenues at once for me and it's just it's so nice like I.

Speaker 2:

You know that's huge. That's it's like multiple passion avenues at once for me and it's just it's so nice like I love it. That's so cool, man. It feels very rewarding to see someone have success when they went to you because they they didn't know what to do yeah, you know, I've like.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if I told you about my brother running, but like he was 265 pounds and he's like I want to run a marathon in a year. It's like I helped him through that process and like the joy that I saw in his face when he, like, crossed the finish line and went from 265 to like two.

Speaker 1:

Now he's 203 um making that whole transformation, this whole change, these whole lifestyle changes, and just seeing how proud he was of himself, it was like that made it everything that I've gone through like made it worth it, because, like I was able to give him the knowledge that I have, it's like I'm sure you'll run into stuff like that and it's just yeah that's awesome dude, I love.

Speaker 2:

I love that story. Like it reminds me of that national champion I spoke of earlier. Oh yeah, um, she was a year older than me, um she, so we trained together very closely. Um, we had similar styles, similar opinions and she was really good. So, like, of course, like naturally, I'm gonna attach to that training style.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and we realized, like routinist, becoming a routinist, is like so deadly, yeah, and that's just because you do things when you're tired, you, you do it no matter what, right, you know what I mean. And like you're reasonable with needing to take a break and what your limits are, but like it's the 1% thing. Like you have to be a routinist to be successful and like just becoming accustomed, like you said, to pain and suffering and just like I guess, like it just kind of numbs it out when you when it, when you get to that point where, like you go to the gym or to train or run or whatever like, and it's just what you do and you don't feel normal without it. Yeah, like then you're a right and you can't live without it. And un, like discomfort is how you feel joy, yeah, as opposed to where you were before.

Speaker 2:

Like we created a culture at byu. Based off of that. That's so like we would practice at a certain time and work on certain things that we needed to work on. Yeah, and that helped. Other people saw that would come and practice on the side at the same time. It's cool, right. And then it'd be like, hey, come over here, you know, and then like eventually it led to like so many people doing the same time.

Speaker 2:

It's cool, right. And then he'd be like, hey, come over here, you know. And then like, eventually it led to like so many people doing the same thing because they saw that that routine is perfectionism, like they just saw that come to play. Yeah, you know, I mean, someone wins a national championship from it. That's so cool and everyone's, you know. Yeah, what did you do? And that was the the main thing that stuck out.

Speaker 1:

You know, man, routine dedication, I mean it helps like that's yeah, that's it, that's what helps. Fuel consistency, yeah, and without consistency you're not going to go very far in in really anything. Yeah, you're not going to get great at anything, I should say, because you can't go far in some things, but like you can imagine your brother man in that moment. He was so cool. That's amazing. And now he's like running a 50k with us. Yeah and uh really yeah, and then he's the guy I'm doing the 50 mile hour with in april.

Speaker 1:

Wow, so it's just like it's, it's cool seeing like a transformation and seeing people believe in themselves and like I'm sure you've run it the same thing already with coaching and stuff like that so, um, that's awesome man. Like, what a story like that. So, um, that's awesome man. Like, what a story Like. That's so cool. Um, but yeah, I, I asked most of my guests this and I got to ask you, um, so, based off like everything we've talked about, like what does getting after it mean to you?

Speaker 2:

It's a good question Cause I believe in so much. Yeah, you know it. Yeah, you know it's a lot just knowing you can't lose. If you don't give up, like I'm serious, like if you never stop, you'll always find a way. Yeah, and there's nothing more rewarding than that. There's nothing more rewarding than that. Like, I know the reward and so I naturally, like my fun is doing things that aren't fun to other people. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like I go to the gym when I really don't want to, right, you know I'm really sore. I roll out my IT band when it's killing me. That hurts for everyone.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

That's the worst pain, yeah that sucks you know what I mean and like it's changed my life forever for that reason, and hopefully that answers your question. But absolutely, man, that that's. I think that would be my answer. Yeah, in a very short form.

Speaker 1:

Summary dude, that's perfect. I think that's a. That's a great place to kind of wrap things up. But dude what? Yeah, seriously, I mean I love that story. It's like taking a chance on yourself and then just going all in on it Like that's huge. So, yeah, man, I appreciate you coming on. This was fun. This was a fun one.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I was excited when you asked me. So yeah, dude, of course.

Speaker 1:

I mean, like I, I feel like there's so much to learn from anyone, especially in, like, people who are in different sports, because, like, the principles that they talk about are all very similar in the sense of, like, well, you need consistency, you need discipline, you need a routine, like, you need all these things, but everyone applies them differently.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, true, and some way that, like, one person might apply it, one way that might resonate with others and, like the way I do, it might not resonate with that person. So it's like it just helps other people to like hear you know how other people are getting after it, quote unquote and like, recognizing that there is a community of people out there who are very similar to them, who are trying to, like make things happen. So, no, I appreciate it, man, and, like, you always have a, always have an invite on. You want to come on and just talk about, like you know, your social page or anything like that, which, by the way, what is it so people can check it out? Oh, all right, yeah, the announcement gotta get the uh, the plug in.

Speaker 2:

Yep um my. My instagram right now is mike wit. Mike underscore wit um same with my TikTok. And soon it will change Really. Okay, it'll change at some point soon in the future, so we'll announce that at some point. But yeah, you know, continuing with the routine and developing, that's what it is for my social as well.

Speaker 1:

So that's what you'll see 1% better on social. Every day, man, every day I'm trying to do the same. It's freaking tough, it's really hard, it's hard, but you know, that's the thing. It's like everything we've talked about like, keep showing up. It's huge. So you're the man dude. Thank you so much for coming on um everyone else. I really appreciate you for listening and, um, as always, just keep getting after it.