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Getting After It
‘Getting After It' is not just a podcast – it's a journey of growth and self-improvement.
It's a weekly discussion where fun, wisdom, and innovation blends with practical strategies, and stories of personal triumph. Here, learning is a lifelong experience and I firmly believe that while knowledge can be taught, you have to apply and execute to see results.
Our guests vary widely in their careers, hobbies, and pursuits, ranging from entrepreneurs to creatives, adventurers, and beyond. These different perspectives provide listeners with an enlightening view of success and fulfillment from different walks of life.
The aim? To fuel your ambition, stimulate your curiosity, and provide actionable advice to help you to reach the goals you set for yourself.
Welcome to 'Getting After It' - the podcast that aims to help you on your journey of personal growth.
Getting After It
083: Lessons from David Goggins and Beyond with Drew Rossell
What does it take to develop unwavering discipline and mental toughness?
In this episode, my brother Drew and I have a conversation about how David Goggins’ Never Finished impacted our lives. Goggins might not be your typical athlete, but his mindset is right up there with legends like Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan.
Drew talks about his journey toward consistency, especially in running, and the lessons on resilience and dedication that apply to anyone, no matter where you’re coming from.
Personal growth starts with small, intentional steps that help build mental toughness over time. We focus on how routines can turn hard things into habits, using running as a metaphor for tackling life’s bigger challenges.
Goggins and Bryant both inspire us to keep pushing for improvement, and we share some of the ways we’ve stayed motivated and mentally strong through setbacks. We also touch on the balance between chasing big goals and staying grounded in personal growth.
Failure and setbacks are part of the deal, but what really matters is how we respond to them. We share some personal stories about hitting low points and the importance of seeing those moments as chances to learn and grow.
In the end, it’s all about hard work, honesty, and staying true to your values—because that’s how you build confidence and live a more balanced life.
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Read the book: Never Finished
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Looking for more insights on personal growth, motivation, and career development? Subscribe to the podcast on your preferred platform. Each episode features a diverse lineup of guests, sharing stories and lessons from their own journeys.
This podcast is built for you—the dreamers and the doers. My goal is to provide a space where you can find inspiration, learn from others, and feel empowered to chase what matters most to you.
If you’re interested in sharing your story or insights as a guest, feel free to reach out.
Your dreams are within your grasp. All you need is the commitment to Get After It.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I am excited for this one. Why? Because my brother, drew, is joining me again and he has had a transformative journey on his own with being disciplined, starting to be consistent with things like running and other areas of his life, and so in this episode we talk about David Goggins and the lessons that we can learn from him. We're both reading his book Never Finished, and so we pull some insights from that to kind of help illustrate our points and have a good discussion, and we have fun while doing it. So I hope you enjoy this episode Let me know if you have any feedback and enjoy. Enjoy.
Speaker 2:The only thing I wanted to talk about was my theory on David Goggins. All right, about Kobe, like how he's misunderstood, about Kobe. About how David Goggins gets a bad rap because he's not a professional athlete yeah, you know what I'm talking about, because he's not a professional athlete. Yeah, I hear that you know what I'm talking about. Kind of like Kobe he was, you know, he's honored, or like he's loved because of who he is. But yeah, davey Argers is like that guy's insane. Yeah, everyone hates him. Yeah, so, yeah, let's jump into this bad boy.
Speaker 2:Okay, welcome to the first in-person podcast with me, thank you. Okay, welcome to the first in-person podcast with me. Thank you, it's a pleasure. I'm excited to be here. It's been a long time coming. It's been a long time coming Now that I'm in Arizona why not?
Speaker 2:But today, david Goggins comes to mind. And I want to start off because the other day we were talking about David Goggins and you said you've changed your opinion on him. Yes, so I want to know what your opinion was before and then what it has changed to. Yeah, david Goggins before, in my mind, he was always a crackhead that's the easiest way to describe it. Pretty accurate, he was so over the top and unnecessarily crazy. Oh, dude, that guy's like we.
Speaker 2:We're both reading this book, or I finished it, but I'm reading it. The stories that he tells him there, like, especially going through halloween and all that stuff, like he ran on broken legs, yeah, so he is a psychopath. He 100 of the psychopaths. The last way, I had a realization because David Goggins has become one of my favorite people, not like one of those David Goggins advocates who's like man, man. No, david Goggins. The principles that he has, that he teaches, are principles for everybody. I agree, it's not just a bunch of test-offs from Phil. You know pretty innocent boys Sometimes it comes off that way. But it's not just a bunch of test offs from phil. You know pretty pretty innocent boys.
Speaker 2:um, sometimes it comes off that way, but it's not. It definitely does. Yeah, but him, michael jordan, kobe bryant, like all these like crazy people essentially are like my heroes and um, one of the the things that I realized about david goggins is I think he is misunderstood because he's not a professional athlete. There's no glamor that comes with being David Goggins Like he's the crazy ball dude running in the desert, versus like Kobe Bryant, he's waking up at 3 am and training behind the scenes twice a day twice a day, but then.
Speaker 2:Well, not anymore RIP, but why'd you got to do that? But then well, not anymore RIP. Why'd you got to do that? But then you know he's going on the court and he's winning basketball games, he's winning championships and there's flashiness to it. Some people like respect the craziness that comes with that.
Speaker 2:But with David Goggins people just say eh, like he's not a superstar, and so I think that's why, with David Goggins, people kind of say you're just crazy for thinking that he's an idol or someone to look up to. Realistically, he's not as crazy, he's just as crazy as Kobe or Michael Jordan. Absolutely, I think you're right there. You look at people like Tom Brady. Same story To your point. He's got how many rings? Seven. Kobe, no, no, tom brady, oh, tom brady has seven, seven rings. And so, like you can see, like he's like what's up, like I got all this from all my hard work and dedication. And david gardens is like hey, I got broken legs because I ran 250 miles in the desert, yeah, or it's like I'm jumping out of airplanes. I don't know if you've gotten to this part of the book. I'm jumping out of airplanes fighting fires in the middle of the forest. It's like none of that is. You know it doesn't come with a trophy Well, winning the race does, but like it's not going to be broadcasted, it's not going to be told to other people, but at same time, like he's a lot, like all of us are, because a lot of us are going to be like in a parade in los angeles. You know, like we're doing the things that drive us like we're gonna, we're gonna die and the people who are gonna remember are the people who are close to us. That's fair, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's interesting with with the example of goggins and not to put you on the spot, but you and him have kind of had a similar, I guess, experience. Yeah, his was very extreme, he was 350 pounds or something like that and he decided to come and need a seal, which took a crazy amount of work. Um, but I mean, you've started running a year ago and have made some serious not not even a year, not even a year, like end of November. That's crazy, yeah. So I mean, like you see that example and I love it. You brought up the point of how that's like most of us, you know, we're not going to go get celebrated and we're not going to have people parade us down to LA, like it's not like that, it's more of a quiet, I guess, driven purpose for yourself. Yeah, but yeah, like what's been your experience with testing your limits and like pushing yourself to do things that are uncomfortable, like running? Yeah, maybe tell a little bit about that For me it's just like, like.
Speaker 2:I feel like every point there's been like a breakthrough right there's, there's been multiple breakthroughs or like multiple things that happened to me. Um, it started with like running three miles and I called you. Just like, bro, I did three miles. It feels so good and I was like I know I just said I'd never run, but I'm gonna keep trying.
Speaker 2:And then I kept going and then we got to the half marathon and it was like I know, I just said I'd never run, but I'm going to keep trying and I kept going. And then we got to the half marathon and it was like, oh man, like I felt good and I remember calling you. That was when I we decided to start training, right, yeah, when I was like yeah, let's start doing this. Bad boy, and I remember expecting to take like a week off and you were like no run tomorrow. And I was like you didn't, you didn't do it on purpose, but I was just like, like I was hoping, it's like I have to run. And then it was like no, it starts tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, but there's just been like little like breakthroughs where it's like what, something felt impossible to me. I finally worked through it and then got to a point where it's just like that's old news. Yeah, you know, like same with, and it just it happened with running, but it just bled into everything that I did, like eating, like you know, challenging myself with the push-ups I suck at push-ups and I'm doing 100 push-ups every day.
Speaker 2:You know, everyone should do on a pushup today just doing like little things like that, or like, even you know, I think about this all the time. Like going to the gas station, yeah, like I'll go and get a diet Coke or whatever where before I go, get a diet Coke, get a candy bar, get a freaking burrito, some good high keto, some stock, get some taquis, like everything. But like now, it's like those things don't even like come up in my mind, just because you know, throughout my journey of running and kind of bleeding and everything, it's like those things just don't come up anymore. So why do you think that is? You don't feel tempted? Well, it started with like understanding if I eat that stuff, it's going to ruin my run. It will give you the runs. It will give you the runs. But also, like you know, I don't know, I just like I think it just over time, after realizing that it's not good for me and that it won't help me in any way.
Speaker 2:Um, it just that need to eat it. Yeah, I still cheat. I still have my bag of marshmallow mayonnaise that I eat after my long runs. Yeah, I eat mine. Um, in my closet. Yeah, and try with in private. But yeah, I think, I think that's like, especially as I've been reading this book like to see with you. Know, david, like throughout his like beginning start with like little things, like he talks about he ran, what was it? I ran a mile and walked home. I don't even think he ran a mile, ran a quarter mile, yeah, and a quarter mile and walked home like like that's, that's what it starts as, but then, as you continue to go like, these things just don't seem big anymore, like anybody like running where I'm at right now.
Speaker 2:We're literally two weeks out from Marathon 1. You're like, oh, you got 13 miles. Oh, you got 10 miles. It doesn't even like, I don't even worry about it. It's crazy, it's normal. Your body adapts so quick once you treat it right, you take care of it. It's hard.
Speaker 2:David Goggin says this quote from the book and apologies if anyone that doesn't want to hear swearing, but you're gonna hear it. Um, this shit ain't permanent. Life is the ultimate competitor. It takes no days off and it won't care if you've made some money or got a promotion at work. All it means is you are good to go for a moment or two, no matter how badass and successful you think you are. Trust me, there's a semi coming around a blind curve ready to smack you in the mouth when you're comfortable as hell and to your point. Yeah, after the half marathon it was like it's time to get back to work.
Speaker 2:One thing that Kobe and David Goggins have in common is their idea that they're never finished. Like David Goggins' book is called Never Finished, kobe always. You know he's famous for that interview. The job's not finished and it's just about those small steps, like you were saying, that get you to. You know where Kobe was, where he won championships. Or Goggins running 250 miles in the desert, yeah, um, but it just it takes time, and David Goggins is a really good example of like. In my opinion. He's a very good example of staying committed and staying dedicated to a goal, having perspective in mind, and when those times came up where he was like tested and pushed and he didn't feel like he could keep going, he still found a way to do it.
Speaker 2:Um, but I'm curious, if you ran into something like that with your own journey, like, what did you tell yourself when the days were hard? Or were there certain things that you would do that helped you get through stuff? What did that look like? I know my weaknesses. I know that I can talk myself out of doing something, especially if I'm the type of person where, if I don't want to do something and that made up in my mind, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2:Us raw cells are stutter, yeah, to do it, yeah, you know. Um, us raw cells are stutter, yeah, and and so like. I just I've always I make it so that, whatever I have to do, I'd make. I'm bringing up barriers, yeah, so like if it's putting out my clothes, if it's packing my lunch, whatever it's like doing like some sort of routine the night before. So when I wake up, there's nothing that's gonna potentially block me from yeah, from doing what I have to do.
Speaker 2:Um, as dumb as that might sound, it really does help. Oh, I totally Set out your pre-workout. Put it on the counter, yeah, so in the morning when you wake up, it's right there, put your clothes out. Like that way. It's like programming your mind Like, hey, I'm waking up and I'm doing this. Yeah, there's nothing that's going to stop me.
Speaker 2:No questioning, it's just like in my head when I go to bed, I know that I'm waking up and running, or waking up lifting, whatever it is like, and then I get up and do it. I think the other thing too is and I feel like this, this has, um, this is like a positive and negative, because sometimes you have to tunnel it. That's true. You know like, yeah, sometimes, like with certain things, you have to kind of block out what's going on, like I do a lot when I run. Like they just tell me literally tunnel vision, like, like things will just kind of go black. Yeah, like I won't have many thoughts, like it's just like, and then all of a sudden I'm halfway down the final one, yeah, it's kind of nice sometimes.
Speaker 2:It is, but no, I think it's good, like prime yourself before you do the thing yeah, that is, but take the steps to get there. He has this quote that I think about all the time, like when I was training for the ultra and I was up in the mountains like doing 21 miles, like hating my life. I I read the book before I trained for that. But there's this quote he says every experience on earth is finite. It will end someday and that makes it doable. But the outcome hinges on those crucial moments. That are those crucial seconds you must win. And he's talking about in this part, like kind of what you were saying we can all talk ourselves out of stuff, um, and there's a point that all of us face where we have the decision to quit or to to give in, and he talks about it like being seconds, like you have like four or five seconds to decide whether or not you're going to stay in the fight. But just me understanding, like the marathon we run next weekend, it will end at some point. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like it's going to pass and so if you can suffer for three and a half hours or whatever, like however long it takes to get that done, it's going to end and then you can celebrate yeah and be proud of yourself for that. I think it's just interesting, like it's a to end and then you can celebrate like yeah and be proud of yourself for that. Um, I think it's just interesting, like it's a perspective shift. A lot of us need to make myself included in that that, no matter how hard the day's get, it's going to end, simple. So he also says something about seconds. I'm ready.
Speaker 2:When he's talking about hell week, he says life like hell week is built on seconds that you must win repeatedly. I'm not saying you have to be hyper aware every second of your life, but if you're pursuing something that demands all you've got and means the world to you, that is often what it takes. I really liked that. You know, like there's little decisions that you're going to be making. You know I talk to myself when I'm running. Sometimes I'm like that you're gonna be making. You know, I talk to myself when I'm running. Sometimes I'm like I'm done, yeah, but I just have to shut that up. You know and I think that's that goes along with you know, everything being finite, it's those little seconds that you just continue to win. You know that you'll eventually get to where you want to be, or it's shameless goals that you.
Speaker 2:It all takes time and yeah, um, there's a compounding compounding effect. That happens when you are consistent. You've heard the phrase consistency compounds, and it is true the more you do something, the more doable you think it is. We're not saying you have to go out there and run 100 miles like David Goggins, but that's just a good example that anyone can change. Look at his pictures that he was 350 pounds and then look at him today. It's like there's no way that's the same person. He's just hiding in there. It's crazy, yeah, but I like that. It's like the seconds in the day that add up to you know, whatever you're trying to accomplish and being like committed to the goal. Yeah, cause I think that's a huge thing.
Speaker 2:A lot of us forget is commitment, and Goggins himself might be the most committed person I've ever like learned Not just commitment to like your goals, but commitment to yourself. That's true too, you know like, like that's been a lot of the mindset change for me too. It's like I want to be healthy for my children. Talk about that before. I want to be around for a long time, but also I want my kids to think when they're talking to their friends about their dad. I'm like, oh, my dad's a badass, he's freaking tough. You don't want to mess with my dad, not aggressive, mean. But I want them to look at me like my dad's know not like aggressive mean, you know. But I don't want them to like look at me like my dad's a hard worker, if he can literally see anything that that he puts his mind to, absolutely. Because I want them to believe that about themselves too. You know so is that a big reason that drives you is like the way your kids see you. Yeah, you want, you want them to know that anything is possible.
Speaker 2:100 yeah, because I feel the same way, like I don't have kids yet, but like I always talk about that. I think it's just like people that I meet too. You know, like not in, like a vein or like a cock you out I. I went to a funeral for um. You remember dave hastings?
Speaker 2:yeah I went to his funeral. Um, and dave was just like the salt of the earth, hard worker, cowboy. You know, I milked goats on his property for a summer. That was a good time. I remember going there a couple of times, a couple of hog-tied goats, but he was someone that I looked up to and I went to his funeral, obviously because I wanted to pay my respects to him, and the church was filled with people that have been touched by his example. Yeah, you know, like and like I mean there was probably this was during COVID too there was at least like six to 800 people in this chapel. It was huge.
Speaker 2:And you know, like, not that that's what I want, but I want like to leave that kind of a mark on my family. But then also like people that I meet, you know, I think that's totally fair. Like you want to be someone that helps people just in life, like it doesn't have to be anything crazy, yeah, but just being a good person. There's not that many people out there who are anymore. Like you are genuinely good people. I think a lot about mom too. Mom's that way, yeah, and she doesn't do it because she, you know, wants the glory or to like you know, like she does, because she genuinely loves people 100%. Yeah, so it was like she would drop anything that she is doing to go help, like any of us that call her. Yeah, without even a question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but both those examples, and even Goggins, to some extent, like they exemplify not exemplify, but they're good examples of humility. They're good examples of humility, yeah, and so how do you go about, like, trying to achieve these great things, doing your best, like pushing yourself and staying humble? I have a couple answers myself, but I want to hear your perspective. Yeah, for me and it was kind of funny because we were talking about it on a podcast but I just don't talk about it. Yeah, like for myself, like when it comes to running, you're the only person that I talk to about my runs, or about, like, my goals, or like how I'm feeling about certain things. Like, obviously I'll talk to Emily too, but but, like you know, for the most part, like I, I keep that just you and me. Uh, not because like, oh, I'm such a good runner, but like I don't want to come off that way. I don't think it is um, but also like you know to be, you know, perfectly honest and maybe even boastful, maybe a little.
Speaker 2:Yeah, boastful is like like that's one of the things I admire about kobe is like kobe wasn't out there telling everyone, yeah, that he's putting in all this work. He was just there doing it, right, you know. And then it showed up and people like finally caught on and were trying to follow him, like they, uh, what was that documentary, um dream team? No, the redeem team, the redeem team team team, like kobe, yeah, he had been doing it for years, waking up at four or 3 and not going out partying.
Speaker 2:And then the Redeem team found out about it and literally all of them stopped partying, all of them started waking up at 4, just because he was out there doing it and he wasn't inviting people, he wasn't talking about it, he was just doing it. So that's a little bit. I just like to keep it to myself and you're my safe space, space, if that makes sense to like or I don't feel like I'm boasting, but like you and I can talk about like how awesome, well, technically, I'm these folks, so I need you to yeah but no, like, nothing gets me more fired up than like when you text me and you're like dude, I said that's wrong.
Speaker 2:Um, like I'm feeling fast. And then, like, if you go back and look at your stats, a year ago it was like 10 minutes and 30 seconds a mile or something. Yeah, it was now it's well. When I first started, it was like 11, 30, okay, so you shaved off. Like now I have. I mean, I, I just did last week, I, I did my fastest, I think more than three miler. Yeah, I did seven miles out of 837. It's insane. So, like, there's my boast for the video.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's important to celebrate those wins, even if it's not like telling someone like within yourself, be like, hey, I'm proud of myself for getting to this point. Like telling someone like within yourself, be like, hey, I'm proud of myself for getting to this point. Um, because, partly like one of the ways or one of the reasons I love, uh, learning about david goggins is because he's so focused on controlling his mind and beating out like any negative thoughts that come his way. So he's like his entire purpose in life is to see what the limits of his mind are. You hear him talk about it and he sounds like he's on a personal journey fighting through hell. Yeah, his own brain that's one of my favorite interviews with him is after he did. I think what was it? I think it was His lead villain. His feet are bleeding.
Speaker 2:And the guy was like how was the heat? And he just didn't notice it Like no emotion. Yeah, and everyone's laughing non-stop. He just didn't notice it. Yeah, yeah, didn't know yeah.
Speaker 2:Insane, yeah. But going back to the humility piece, I think doing these really hard and difficult things they help you in their own way. Yeah, every time I run and like I'm getting tired, like kind of beat my ass just in training, like it's hard, yeah, um, and so like it doesn't come naturally, it doesn't come easy, so there's no reason to go and be like, hey, guess what I just did? Like no, you, like you shrunk. That's a fair point. I did the 7-miler or the 837. When I did my 19-miler, I was at 959. I mean, 19 is huge though, right, but then the next week I did better. That 19-miler in my head was not good enough. It humbled me back to reality. It's true, that's a good point. Yeah, I think it's like it's important to to remember like we are human. Yeah, the only person that was perfect on this earth and it was amazing was jesus, and none of us are him. Yeah, um, but kind of going along with those things, like the drive that pushes us to do those things.
Speaker 2:I think David Goggins has a quote on this that I want to frame, but he says I'm haunted by my future goals, not my past failures. I'm haunted by what I may still become I'm haunted by my own continued thirst for evolution still become. I'm haunted by my own continued thirst for evolution and that I got. As weird as that seems. I feel that, like we all know, we're capable of greatness and if we're not doing what we can to try and achieve that, then I feel like we're leaving a lot on the table. And also bringing me to the man in the arena quote. Do you hear this? You know, roosevelt, it's long, just bear with me.
Speaker 2:Okay, but he says it is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how strong and how the strong man stumbles, or the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming, but who does actually strive to do the deeds, who knows great enthusiasm, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who, at the best, knows in the end triumphs of high achievement and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while doing greatly, so that he is placed on every view with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Boom, theodore Roosevelt.
Speaker 2:I love what he says. Like you're either going to succeed or you're going to fail, and at least have given yourself the best shot. Yeah, um, has there ever been a time where, like you have failed at something and you're you were proud of what you did? I mean the answer is yes. Um, I'm trying to think of like a specific, because I mean I feel like I have plenty of running examples.
Speaker 2:I mean I would say like being a dad you know, like I feel like being a dad, a lot of it is failure. But then, like I mean I think it's looking back on me like, hey, well, I did the best that I could there in that situation, but then like growing from there, like I'll give you an example. I hate that I'm about to share this. This is like all right. Yes, this is like one of my least favorite stories. Um reeves had a school like party I don't even know what it was. It was like a, like a splash pad and um, I shaved ice party or something like that and so anyway, that sounds great.
Speaker 2:I got home from work been a long day and the last thing I wanted to do was to go and I was a buckle the whole freaking time, yeah, and um, I was just like beside myself, I was grumpy, you know, like every second I was like trying to do this and that. And then we got home, emily called me out, was like all I responded to do today was to go to that thing with you and you were a jerk the whole time and I legit cried and I went and sat on his floor while he was asleep and I picked him up and I held him for like 20 minutes. So that was one of those times maybe not the best time to be proud of, but like right then, and there I hadn't realized you know what I was doing. Yeah, I realized that I had failed, obviously like I'm not going to be like, um, the worst dad in the world, but I had definitely failed as a dad at that time.
Speaker 2:But then it you know I feel like it set me up to be better from there on out. Yeah, so I don't know that, I don't know if that makes sense, but I feel like I've said. It's definitely one where, like I, I failed, was not proud of where I was, but also, at the same time, like proud of the dad that I am, but it gave me an opportunity to become a better dad yeah, failure it's not failure if you learn from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, we all make mistakes. Again, it goes back to that fact that we're human. But if you are learning from your failures and getting better because of it, like that's our whole reason why we're here, is like to become better people and to help each other out and, um, yeah, like, I sure I like I assume, if something like that happens again, like you're not gonna be like, oh sorry I'm, I don't want to go re Reese, I'm going to be going home. To be fair, dude, I felt like I had been coming home like that for a while and then, like since then, like I don't come home like that anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, like obviously everyone has bad days, but like I feel like I was coming home quite often Kind of stuff, like not like because work is horrible. I love my job, all that stuff, but like you know, it's just long, tired, especially training, sometimes like training and then working all day. It kind of takes it out of you, especially like emotionally being available. But it's like it just awoke something inside of me and it was just like and I just don't come home like that. Yeah, I think that's huge. I mean I had a similar experience with Allie. The first three months of marriage I was just a tool bag. I kind of sucked at being a husband, but I learned a lot of lessons in that time about how not to treat your wife and what you should be doing to help build that relationship. I don't look at that time as a failure. I look at it as like a learning opportunity and you know I was new to marriage. I've been in it for three months and so, yeah, I have a lot of them to grow and I still do, um, but I'll do like.
Speaker 2:Gargan's also has this quote I don't think it's in this book, but um, that he doesn't look at failure as a failure. He looks at them as attempts, and so anytime that I have a bad run, I always remind myself that, like you know what, it's something that I can get better at. Like it's not the end, it's uh, you know, whatever that looks like, but you can keep pushing and learn from your mistakes. Whatever that looks like, but you can keep pushing and learn from your mistakes. So I think it's huge. Sorry, I was looking for a quote, but I found it. You want to share it? No, let's keep going, okay, yeah, I think it's important to keep that perspective, to learn.
Speaker 2:And one thing that I admire David Goggins about to kind of shift the topics is his resilience and mental toughness. Like that is something I hope to gain by even a small fraction of what he has in order to control his mind, to push away weakness. But I know that only comes through challenging yourself. To push away weakness, but I know that only comes through challenging yourself. But he has this thing, this other quote where he says Respect is earned. Every day, by waking up early, challenging yourself with new dreams or digging up old nightmares and embracing the suck like you have nothing and have never done a damn thing in your life. Respect is earned every day. It's kind of like that one quote from the Rock.
Speaker 3:You've got to pay your rent every day, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people say that I know Josh Bridges, he's a crossfitter, he's like an old crossfitter. He uh, he's in jeff bridges. No, josh brady's, he's like an old crossfitter, he, uh, he used to say, uh, pay the math yeah that was his slogan pretty good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it is true, like there are days when I wake up and like there's no way I didn't I can do this, like I'm exhausted, my body hurts, um. But what's interesting, enough enough, is Goggins talks about the same thing. He will look at his shoes sometimes for an hour and be like I really have to go run. I did that on Saturday, just delayed. I was supposed to run 13 miles on Saturday. I woke up and I was just empty, staring at nothing. I didn't run until Sunday morning.
Speaker 2:We're all human, we're all prone to it. The point is, what are you doing those moments after? Are you going to reminisce on it all day? I remember you calling me and you're like I'm just going to get it done tomorrow. Today was a late start, I'm just going to get it in tomorrow. It's like okay, fine, it's great, as long as you're doing it. As long as you're doing it, as long as you're putting your best foot forward. Like things come up in life, it's hard, but yeah, what was the quote you have? So I feel like this ties in. I feel like, pretty well, so I want to give preface this, give a little backstory, give me a little backstory. So this is.
Speaker 2:David Goggins at this point in the book he's talking about. I think it was the release of his first book and he's been doing like press tours and things like speaking engagements and he like, oh yes, I know where you're going yeah so yeah, he kind of felt like he wasn't a full time savage.
Speaker 2:But the crazy thing is that he had a cardiovascular event. I don't remember. Do you remember what it was? I know he had a hole in his heart, is that what it was? And then I think it opened up and he had to go get like surgery again. So I can't remember if he had to do surgery at this point or if he had, like recovered enough to a point where his doctor said he could do like strenuous. Anyway, well, his friend had asked him to run Leadville 100 again, but for his charity. Do you remember this story?
Speaker 2:And so he like talks about this moment where he like looks in the mirror and he calls himself out. I'm not going to read that, because there's a lot of F-bombs and stuff. Actually, you know what? I'm going to read something that I pulled up. You can censor it. Yeah, we can dropor it. Yeah, we could drop it. Now I'll bleep it out for you. So he talks about how I looked in the mirror. I had a conversation with myself. I said you're a miserable mother, effer. Right now you can sit here and say sorry for yourself or you can go out there and win this effing thing. That's huge.
Speaker 2:And then the quote that stuck out to me the most is he talks about how he became a part-time savage. The weekend warrior is what he called himself. Yeah, he says, when you're a full-time savage, it's a lifestyle there's no want to, there's only must do. So that's like that's probably the biggest thing for me that stuck out. You know this whole book so far. Thing for me that stuck out in this whole book so far is and I feel like mentally, I'm starting to get to that point. Obviously, I'm not perfect. There's a lot of facets in my life where I don't have this mental toughness, but when it comes to running, I feel like I'm starting to master this. There's no want to, it's just must do. You got to get it done.
Speaker 2:And if you want to reach your goal of finishing your marathon, you know that you have to do the training and you have to put in the work, you have to put in the time. So then, otherwise, like you, you'll get there on race day and you will bonk and you will fail. And if you don't put that work in, the results won't come. If you don't put that work in, the results won't come. And I love that, because I've actually fallen into that a couple of times.
Speaker 2:Most recently after my ultra, I was like I think it took me like two weeks to get back into a full training routine. Obviously, like the week after it was recovering quite bad, yeah. But then in my head I was like, oh, I've already run an ultra marathon, like I'm an ultra marathoner, that's sick, um, but I have nothing to brag about because my performance was terrible. Like I did so bad. That's not true. You pushed through a lot. I did. Yeah, I threw up, yeah, um, but my wife shout out to alice, she freaking ran the thing with me pretty much yeah, um, but it does happen, like and I think that's where humility comes in that you have to remain humble because otherwise that ego will start talking.
Speaker 2:I think david joggins talks about how, like he was getting all this money and stuff and like life was becoming comfortable yeah, and that that's that's the part of talking describes the mirror and it says it's not a gross, moldy mirror from my childhood. This was a shiny, clean, modern, like mirror, looking back at me. Yeah, I mean, I think there's like there is time to like upgrade yourself right. Yeah, you should be like, if you're working hard, you're making money, like spend it on things that you like, but like don't get comfortable to the point to where you put your goals aside for comfort and like I think that's what David Goggins is trying to say, um, because then, like, you lose that savagery. If you want to call it that, hey, let me read another book. It's probably just right on par. It says you have to fight to keep that mindset, getting up every day and get after it because it wants to go away. So I think I mean that's like really it Like, yeah, if you don't maintain it, it's going to disappear. What do you do to maintain that? How do you get out of bed every day and get after it? I mean, again, it's tunnel vision for me. It's tunnel vision, it's prepping Like even like I've been having, I feel like I'm starting to get a little stressed about the race.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's like going into black Friday, you know, for work. So it's like I'm busy, um, but I'm starting to get a little stressed about the race and I found myself like um, a couple, what days ago. Um, like stressing out about, like what's gonna happen after, yeah, what's gonna look like afterwards, and I'm like it's gonna be the same. You're trying to keep freaking going. It's gonna keep doing more and more. You know, like that, that was like one thing. So I think I think for me it's just again like moving barriers.
Speaker 2:But then, like having a plan, yeah, in my head, 100%, you always better. Like I don't know, I think you should always be Training for something. Yeah, it could be like I don't know, like a goal, mileage that you want to hit or something, but like you should always have a goal. Like I need to push myself every single day to get to where whatever X goal is. I mean should always have a goal. Like I need to push myself every single day to get to where whatever x goal is. I mean you have to stay in the fight. You have to figure out how to do that. Obviously you don't have to be like an official race, but like what are some ways that you can push yourself and keep going. Yeah, because, um, like I love that theodore roosevelt well, like, the person who gets the credit is the guy who's got the dust on his face, who's fighting every day, who's in the arena actually doing it. Yeah, and he's not going to be one of those cold, timid souls that didn't even have the courage to try it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like this is going to be for me a big test post-marathon. Oh what? Because I don't have the race lined up for after this, it's pretty much in February. I might not go to that. Emily might be going. I will probably use it as a you know, like a check mark for me. Like yeah, we talked about this. I want to focus on speed, but like I don't have a, so I'll be running essentially for no reason.
Speaker 2:Yeah, besides maintaining your, because before this it was Team 10, and then it was what was the name of it? In February or March April? Oh, that was in May, was that in May? Yeah, the Ocean. Oh, the Orange County race. Orange, march April that was in May. Yeah, the Ocean, oh, the Orange County race Half. And then it's been from then to now, training for Vegas.
Speaker 2:It is pretty, yeah, it's wild, but I don't know. I think it'll be fine, it'll be good, you don't need to have a race, but does help, like being like, oh, I have this deadline I have to train for, yeah, um, but I want to. I want to come back to something david goggins said. Um, I think this is in his first book, but he talks about how he was scared a lot to go and try and be an ADC, and rightfully so. Like he's thrown in the house, like he doesn't know how to run, he can't, but he wants to be a native seal, and so he started that journey. Um, he had to, like walk into the recruiter's office and pretty much, uh, be a little, because, like they were like, oh, you're a fatty, you want to be able to do this, um, and a year ago, before you started running.
Speaker 2:Was there ever a time where you needed to exercise, purge, be like?
Speaker 2:You know what I'm cut out for more, I know I can push myself, or whatever. That story you were trying to tell yourself was Like before I like started getting into running? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I felt like for a long time like I felt like uh, uh, for a long time, um, in the like, I would say like in my fitness, which has always been like a big part, since you know, we lived in Rexburg yeah, it's been a big part of like of me and like the way I feel, um, I felt like I just, you know, kind of, I mean I got up to 265, you know, yeah, and that for me it was like a huge wake up call where it was like, dude, you're not big, you're not huge, like there's a reason that, like, when you look in the mirror you don't look like Dwayne Johnson. You know it's because I was, I was fat, and that I felt like for me was like, hey, I need to find something. Was it hard to confront that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, it's like Peter Gargan talks about digging up the. What did he say? What did he say? I can't find him Champ's digging on the couch. He's digging on the couch. He's digging on the couch digging up old nightmares. Yeah, like you have to confront yourself, you have to be honest with yourself. What was that? Like I mean, it was uh, I just be honest. Yeah, you know, like I looked in the mirror and it was like dude, like I didn't even like think I had big arms or big legs or anything.
Speaker 2:I mean I was like lifting heavy yeah, like I've gotten up to 405 deadlift, you know, like 236 bench, 315 squat. Like I was almost in a thousand pound club at one point and but like I looked in the mirror and I'm just like dude, you're not huge, yeah, you know. And like I had to confront that and and I think that's kind of what started on this journey of like I want to be healthy, you know you look at a lot of these like strongman competitors or like bodybuilders and all those things.
Speaker 2:I mean a lot of them don't live that long. Yeah, a lot of them abuse drugs. A lot of them abuse drugs. But like that was like the turning point for me was like the gym isn't just a place where you can go and make yourself look pretty, yeah, but like you can learn discipline, but then also like you need to be healthy and learn healthy habits. So I feel like that was a huge thing. I mean, remember I went and got a physical. You remember this? I got my cholesterol levels were like so high and they're like you can't eat carbs. And you're like you can't eat carbs and you're like you can't eat carbs, yeah, and you and I were like that's stupid. Yeah, rice, he'd freaking lift heavy weights. Um, yeah, like I. Just I had to confront that that person and like tell myself the truth.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, like I feel like it's gotten easier too now, where, like, I put the ego aside, oh yeah, and it's like like in my head, dude, I was, I was jacked, but really it was like the pills were a dough boy you know, I still look like him a little bit no no, that's not even close.
Speaker 2:But no, I totally understand that. Like it hits super hard to be honest with yourself because you don't want to hurt that ego and that's one thing Goggins talks about is like you need to put that aside. But same with like Jocko, it's like put the ego out the door. Well, I want to ask you the question too Okay, when did you feel like you have had to use courage outside of running Outside? Yeah, outside of running outside, yeah, um. I have an example from your life, but I want to see what you have to say.
Speaker 2:I would probably say, like being committed to my goal and telling everyone that it was yeah, um. For example, like we'd go out to dinner and I'd get a salad, everyone else would get like burritos or mini chimneys or whatever. When, when we go to like our favorite Mexican restaurant and everyone would be like Brett, why'd you get a salad? Like what's going on? Um, and I know it sounds silly, but like in those times I was like whatever, like, yeah, I'm just gonna be brave and order this thing. Like, cause, I could have the choice of. Like I'm going to order a bunch of tacos like everyone else, um, but I would say like being true to what I believe has sometimes been difficult. Um cause, a lot of people like you, I think, understand this. Now, when you try and do hard stuff everyone's like, why are you? Doing that.
Speaker 2:Like, why are you running? Your knees are going to hurt, like what's the point? Um, but it's all because, like you know, know, you see the value in it and you want to progress in that way.
Speaker 2:yeah, but I think, that's a big one, like if you believe in something, you have to stay true to it, and that means sometimes you're going to get judged by other people. And I got I literally when we're talking about the, the want to, versus have to. I say that all the time I get work like oh, I have to run 17 miles this weekend, or whatever. And they're like everyone would be like, have to Like yes. Like there's no, like yes, Like no, it's yes, have to.
Speaker 2:And it's hard and even like my company, we do lunch once a week and sometimes I'll eat it Like if it's a sub or something or like salad or whatever. But like, a lot of times I've had to just be like no, bring my own food, and I'm sitting there eating cauliflower rice and freaking ground turkey, I know, and everyone's looking at you like what are you doing? But like, don't get, once in a while You're not as balanced. Goggins doesn't really have balance, but that's okay. I was going to say actually he does have balance, that's true. He talks about that in his first book, that is true.
Speaker 2:Alright, what were you going to say? I was going to say I think an example in your life where you had to be courageous was moving to Utah. Yeah, that's true, because really no one was up there, I just shut down. You got a job at another agency that you hated. Yeah, it's the worst, and you had no idea really what you were doing, getting into a pattern, because you never really worked in sales other than frozen dessert supplies, you know. But that's courageous, dude, like that. That takes a lot of guts, especially going to a place like like I mean I feel like mentally you were in a different headspace? Yeah, I was. I think about that a lot. Actually, I'm proud of myself for taking that step because, like, if I didn't, I don't know where I'd be now. I probably wouldn't be married to Allie, that that's for sure probably living with mom and dad still. Oh man, yeah, like love you mom, but I'm 27, yeah, so I mean it was scary, but, um, it's kind of like.
Speaker 2:The point of what we're talking about tonight is, like, if you feel like there's something you want to do or something you want to try, like it could be running, it could be moving somewhere, it could be taking a job, it could be anything like anything that requires a certain amount of courage, like commit to it, see how it goes for a while, and if you hate it or it doesn't work out, like you'll, you'll be alive still, like you're not gonna die. Yeah, um, you might feel like it. But also, I was wrong about balance. It wasn't him, it was, uh, hormosy, was it hormosy? I don't know if he talks about that. It's the uh, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna have a head into a great fire. It's michael jordan book. Oh, relentless, relentless, yeah, yeah. Doesn't he talk about balance and how there is no such thing as balance. Yeah, that is Tim Grohl. Yeah, it's okay, godden sucks about it too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but I think one thing I want to cover before we wrap this up is self-confidence that comes from doing all these things, because if you read David Goggin's first book and if you listen to some of his podcasts, he would always say he's the chocolate, milkshake, twinkie-eating, fatso and he had no confidence and he would go and get those food choices because, like that made him feel good for a moment and he was like able to, you know, alleviate some of that pain for just a quick second. I think there's a story where he talks about how he tried to run a quarter mile, ended up crying, walking home, and then he went and got like a chocolate shake and a bunch of donuts because he like wanted to feel good for a second. Um, but if you look at his journey, he's become the most confident man that I think he, he thinks he can be like his confidence is insane. Um, but that brings up a quote from alex carmosi that I I talk about the time, like it's probably my favorite you don't become confident by shouting affirmations in the mirror, but by having a stack of undeniable proof that you are who you say you are.
Speaker 2:Outwork your self-doubt, and David Goggins has done that many times. I think just by watching him he's outworked his self-doubt over and over and over again. Self-confidence is something that I've been trying to work on. If you go listen to my first podcast episodes, you can tell I'm just like hey, what's going on, guys? It's so bad.
Speaker 2:I love the song. I knew it was so bad, but now it's like I do it. The more I do it, the more I put myself out there, the more confident I am and like sharing my opinions, um, and then like, when I train and run and do these hard things, my confidence in that skill builds and I'm like you know, maybe a 50 mile race isn't out of my purview, maybe that is something I can't achieve, maybe, you know, but 250 marathon is something I can do. Well, wouldn't it be? Yeah, but it's only because I've put in the work that I know that it is something that is doable. Yeah, um, all that to say, I'll let to to get this question out is like, like you mentioned earlier, that you saw running bleed into every other area of your life. I'm curious if it did that with confidence too. Yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:Like I feel like a different person. Dude, like it's so weird, it is weird.
Speaker 2:Like it's like like doing these things and then, like I don't know it, just I feel like a happier version of myself. What do you think that is? I think it's, I think it's part of it is blowing through those like barriers that I've put on myself, you know, and like some of them were actual, like mental barriers, some of them were physical barriers, you know, and like getting through those, like like has made me feel better and confident. Um, but like yeah, I it just kind of bled into everything. And like going into my running, like I've got marathon one for you guys september 3rd um, but like tuning for a special vlog, tuning for a special vlog, but like if you were to ask me before, team Tim, I was scared If you were to ask me before half, like to even run the half, If you were to ask me about the half we did in Orange County, not as scared but still intimidated because I knew we're going for sub two hour yeah, you
Speaker 2:know, um, but like going into marathon, like I, I am getting anxious, but that's just a part of it. It's like getting up to it, being close to it, but like confidence, I have zero doubt. Like I went from being like timid, scared, like it's 26 miles, bro, I did 20 already and I got second wind at mile 18. So, what's another six? What's another six? 6.2? Nothing Like, especially. Like I don't have to freaking be at a five-minute pace. Yeah, I just have to freaking do the damn thing, you know. And like that's, that's where it is. And like that attitude though as I feel like it's so much easier to be replicated in daily life where it's like, okay, well, it's not as hard as running 20 miles, yeah, let's freaking go. You know, I feel the exact same thing.
Speaker 2:Like I love that you said that, because I tell you all the time, like running is the perfect metaphor for life. I think I say it probably every episode. Yeah, because, like there's highs and lows in every run. There's some days where you feel like shit and you don't want to do it. There's days where you're feeling amazing. There's days where, like you have all these blisters but you keep going and push through the difficulty and like you can see that in every aspect of your life, like, if it's work, like you're gonna have great days at work, you're gonna have bad days at work. You're gonna do really well on your presentation, other times you're gonna suck and feel like the worst piece in the world and like the point is you never let that stop you and you find ways to develop yourself, to push past that and don't let it define who you are. I have two quotes, but I feel like I'm right off of that. Yeah, we know that David Goggins is a machine, right. He wasn't always though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's just crazy. But he talks about. There's two quotes. He says when you are in the grip of life and in the danger of losing your shit, just think it's time to take a knee. It's the first quote. Okay, it's time to take a knee. So pause, yeah. And then he goes tell yourself I'm good here, I'm great there. This sucks, but it'll be over 20 minutes. Maybe it's 20 miles or 20 days or 20 weeks, but that's it, I'm clear, yeah, boom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it's okay to feel that way. Yeah, but it's about how you respond to those feelings. Or you know, to those feelings, instead of responding with I'm not saying you can't take a rest today, you should listen to your body 100% but I'm saying it's about the way you respond to that. You could be like, okay, my body's killing me, and you could respond and be like I'm horrible, horrible, I'm dying. It's like no, just take a deep breath and realize that, um, it's okay, you know, and it's gonna pass. That happens to me all the time. Yeah, like, if I'm no, I need a rest day and I end up taking it. Then, like ali always beats me up for this, but it's so true like I need to get out of this headspace the rest of the day. I'm like man, you suck. Like you should have just done. Like what's wrong with you? You're weak, yeah, but it's like no, that's not the case.
Speaker 2:Um like take a breath and but then come back harder, yeah, come back ready to go yeah, um, it's like the whole point of stoicism.
Speaker 2:It's like you can't control what happens to you, but you control a response yeah and I think running and doing these part things that we've been talking about help you control your responses, manage your emotions a little bit better and be able to stay in the fight when things get tough and things aren't going your way. Yeah, but it's exactly what you said You're strong. Take a knee, take a breath. Whatever you got to do to get through it, tell yourself it's going to pass. Don't let it stop you. I tell myself that a lot when I'm done. A lot of times I actually think about the David Goggins quote in that post-Ledville where he says didn't notice it. I say that a lot when I'm running.
Speaker 2:It's like I might have a side pain and I'll just like don't notice it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's whatever, even though it's like really hurting, and my inner self is like Drew, you're an idiot. That's why I have to tell myself something. It's like didn't I was, yeah, today I had, um, I ran two miles well, six total, but two at a 640 pace, yeah, and by the end of mile two I was like my lungs were burning. And then that same thing. I was like, whatever it's done, yeah, who cares? It's over, but um, no, and to sum it all up, like yes, david gardens is.
Speaker 2:He is maybe a very extreme example to look to, but he's also a realistic example like. He took it to the extreme with like I'm gonna push myself and go run these crazy miles, I'm going to become a Navy SEAL, I'm going to run on broken legs. But he wasn't like that at the beginning and he was 350 pounds, he was spraying for bucks, he did not have like the best job or the best life. He lived in like a small apartment, I think, with his grandma or something like that. And then one day it just clicked and he's like I need to change. Just kind of like with you. You're like you're looking at yourself in the mirror and you're like you know, I'm not who I think I am and I need to change that to be who I know I can become. And everyone has that in like.
Speaker 2:Everyone has the ability to achieve greatness Talk about all all the time but it's those who are willing to actually take the actions together, who are willing to put themselves in uncomfortable situations, who become that greatness that they always imagined they could be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's been awesome like seeing you actually do it because, yeah, a year ago you're like hell. No, I'm never running again, Like that's the dumbest thing you and I would do a help for the holidays. On Thanksgiving we run like mile. I remember fighting you and be like no, I want to be 40 miles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll do four sets of a quarter mile. Yeah, we're just saying I just want to do, I just want to lift. Which lifting is important? Like you need to incorporate holes, but like it's this crazy scene where you work and now we're running a marathon next weekend.
Speaker 2:Well, if we were to do hell for the holidays, we'd be like, okay, we're going to start with a six-mile run. I'd be like, okay, probably. Yeah, like it is Ten-mile run, we'll probably do that this year. Six and a half to start, do circuit and then run six and a half afterwards. That I might fight you on still, that's fair. Anything else that comes to mind that you want to discuss or bring up about Mr Goggins? The only thing about David Goggins that I love above all things is his ability to get it done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, let's start to cut you off.
Speaker 2:But everyone who you've mentioned Jordan, kobe, michael, I guess that is Michael. Jordan Goggins, kobe Gordon Goggins. Yeah, like they all have this yeah. Like they just know how to get it done. Yes, gordon Goggins. Yeah, like they all have this. Yeah, like they just know how to get it done. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like that's. That's the thing is that they and this is this thing that he says he says if you want to get better, do the things no one else wants to do, do the things that you're uncomfortable doing. If you can get through doing things that you hate to do, the other side is greatness. On the other side is greatness Boom. And that perfectly sums up Goggins. And that he's not like. I know he seems like a freak, but he's not actually a freak. Yeah, and you know it's all about just, if you want to be better, do the things you don't want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that that there's this quote from him. Um, that I try and live by through the podcast, through my own social media. But he says this I gave myself one rule before joining social media if I can't live it, I won't speak. And that alone, I think, is a lesson that we can all take. Is like, if you can't live it, if you can't do what you say you're going to, then don't say it. Yeah, until you can get to that point where you have built that confidence, you've gotten to the point to where you know that you can run seven miles, no problem, 13, no problem. And now you're like getting ready for this marathon. You're like it'll be hard, but I'll get it done. Like don't say the things that you can't live up to, because then you become a liar and then it's bad, but everyone has greatness inside of them.
Speaker 2:So that's it. It's a good book. Everyone go listen to it. It says some f-words, but other than that, it's good. This is going to be a regular occurrence. Yes, you're on the show, so stay tuned. Microphones are going to get better, but I want to get more handsome he's going to get handsome. I'm going to get buff. I'll die my hair. We'll both get buff. That's true. Actually, after the marathon, we're going to strength train a little bit more More push-ups Easy.
Speaker 2:Make it 500. Thanks for coming on. Until next episode. Everyone keep getting after it. How's that? That was a good one. I liked it. Hour and two minutes, dude, it's pretty good. What's your normal podcast link?
Speaker 1:the one I put one up yesterday was uh 30 minutes.