Getting After It

070: How To Do Great Work by Paul Graham

• Brett Rossell • Season 3 • Episode 70

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Ever wondered how top performers consistently knock it out of the park and stay fired up? This episode is about transforming your approach to professional and personal growth.

We're diving deep into Paul Graham's iconic essay 'How to Do Great Work' and sharing wisdom from our enlightening chat with John LeBaron of Pattern.

I'll walk you through aligning your goals with your natural strengths and passions. Think of it like running - there are highs, lows, and a lot of sweat, but the rewards are worth every step.

You'll discover how self-driven curiosity can catapult you to excellence, and why chasing unique ideas and personal projects is your secret weapon. "Optimizing for interestingness" isn't just a fancy phrase; it's the key to staying motivated and loving what you do.

I'll share strategies to keep you disciplined and highlight the importance of surrounding yourself with positive vibes. From tackling setbacks to leveraging your unique advantages, this episode is your all-in-one guide to mastering your craft and hitting those lofty aspirations.

Set high standards, stay motivated, and build a career - and life - that fulfills you.

Follow on Instagram: @bcrossell

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I hope you've enjoyed today's discussion and that it's ignited a fire within you to pursue your dreams and embrace your true potential. (If it was helpful, share it with someone you think could benefit.)

If you're hungry for motivation, personal development, and career insights, be sure to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform. I try to have a diverse lineup of guests, each with their own unique stories and experiences to share.

Remember, this podcast is all about you—the dreamers and the doers. I'm here to provide a platform where your voice can be heard, where you can find inspiration, and where you can learn from the journeys of others who have dared to chase their dreams.

If you are interested in being a guest, reach out.

I appreciate your support, let's connect on social media. Follow us on Instagram (@gettingafterit_) to stay updated on new episodes and behind-the-scenes content.

Remember, your dreams are within reach. You just have to decide to Get After It.

Speaker 1:

So if you do what you want and you're excited about what you're doing, you're not on the wrong path. You are on your path. No one else's who's to say that they can tell you what you should be doing with your life, unless you're doing something really stupid. You're on your own. Oh yeah, welcome back to the podcast. Everyone, I am in my home studio today. I was at pattern last time but for convenience reasons today, hey, I'm just, I'm just home recording this for you all, and I'm very excited to talk about what we're going to today, because this has been something that's been on my mind, honestly, from starting this podcast, and it's about how to do things that you're passionate about, how to do great work.

Speaker 1:

And I've alluded to Paul Graham quite a bit on this podcast recently, and the reason being is because Paul Graham is the founder of a venture capitalist firm called Y Combinator and they're based out of Silicon Valley, if I believe that's correct. If not, fact check me. But pretty much he created the top venture capital firm in the US for startups and from that he's learned all these different lessons of what makes a successful startup and what doesn't, and what attributes do some of these founders have that others do not, and it's interesting because he outlines all this in his essays. They're all free online. I'll put a link to his website in the show notes, so just look out for that, but if you're interested in checking it out. His idea, though, is he takes these lessons and compiles them into essays, and one of his essays is called how to do great work.

Speaker 1:

This one stood out to me because I actually have heard this phrase. You know you need to be doing your best work. You need to be asking the best of yourself and trying to put yourself in situations that force you to do your best and make you a better person. A lot of times, that's hard to do, and I understand that it's hard to go against the things that are in your brain. But anyways, how to do great work? The reason why it stood out to me is because, when I first joined Pattern John LeBaron, he looked at me and he said this is a place where everyone does their great work, including yourself. They do their best work. There you go. I apologize, but this is a place where everyone does their best work. There you go. I apologize, but this is a place where everyone does their best work, including you, and this is something he tells the entire company and John LeBaron I had him on one of the episodes not too too long ago. Go back and listen to that if you want to hear that but he is one of my mentors and he is someone who, um, I really appreciate just asking questions and he always answers them and gives me his thoughts, but he would always tell people to do his best work.

Speaker 1:

And I went and talked to John on Thursday and I asked him about this. I said what do you think it means to do your best work and why do you make that a focus? What's interesting is John's answer actually lined up a lot with this essay that we're going to go into today. But what's interesting is he said you know, really, the way that you do your best work is you demand it from yourself and you don't just look for your work to be good. You don't want it just to be the bare minimum. Because if you shoot for the bare minimum and you shoot just to be good enough, then that's what you're going to be and you're never going to be your best. But if you're demanding the best from yourself every single day, then guess what that's going to compound, and it's like the phrase consistency compounds, which how many times have I said that on this podcast? Quite a bit. But consistency compounds, and so does doing your best. If you're doing your best over and over and over again, that's going to accelerate your progress, accelerate your growth.

Speaker 1:

So, with that little preface I guess we'll call it, let's jump into the essay how to do great work by Paul Graham. I want to say this, though, before jumping into it. So he talks a lot about projects in this, in this essay, and the reason being is he says you know, good founders need to have projects that they're passionate about, that excite them, and oftentimes they're going to have to go against what other people are telling them to do so they can focus on what they enjoy and what they're good at. So he says projects a lot, but what I want you to focus on is when he says projects, you can replace that word with goals. But take what is said in this essay and find ways you can apply it to your own life, because there are a lot of tips in this that I think you can internalize and work for yourself, for your benefit.

Speaker 1:

So how to do great work by Paul Graham. I want to start off with this part. He says the first step is to decide what to work on. Pretty self-explanatory. The work you choose needs to have three qualities it has to be something you have a natural aptitude for, that you have a deep interest in and that offers scope to do great work. Now, if you replace that with the goals you choose need to have three qualities it has to be something you have natural aptitude for, that you have a deep interest in and that offers a scope to do great work. And if you have goals that you're working on for yourself, ask yourself those three questions Do I have a natural aptitude for it? Do I have a deep interest in it? Does it offer me a chance to do great work? Guess what? Running. I'm bringing it in already. We're six minutes into this episode and I'm already talking about running.

Speaker 1:

So whatever, but that's honestly one of the reasons why I choose to run and I love it. Because of that my natural aptitude, I would say, yes, I have long legs, so I'm almost built for running, and that's come in like yeah, I've. I've understood that pretty quickly. Now is do I have a deep interest in it? Yes, I do, because there is so much behind pushing yourself, testing your limits, that you learn through running that can apply in so many other aspects of your life. And so the more that I run, the more I realize I can do more. The more I do more. As silly as that sounds, it's like a formula for me. It's like if I can go hit this 18 mile trail run, then I can do anything that is going to come to me throughout the day, because nothing is going to be as hard as that. So think about that. Do you have an interest in it?

Speaker 1:

Another thing that interests me about running is the different forms. Now that I'm training for this ultra, let me tell you running on the road is a thousand times different than running on the trails. Running on the trails is a whole other animal and sometimes it sucks, but you know what it's important Strengthens my legs. And the last part, does it offer me a scope to do great work? I think so Because, one, I'm never satisfied with where I'm at in running and two, there's races I am aiming for. Like, I want to run a 100-mile. You know I have to get each of these steps done and, um, what I mean by steps is in 21 days I'll be running 32 miles, so take that for what it's worth. But I love those three things.

Speaker 1:

And with whatever goals that you have right now, ask yourself those questions is and I'm going to say them again, so it might be redundant but ask yourself do you have a natural aptitude for it? Is it something that you have a deep interest in? Can you do great work in this goal or this field? Whatever it is, can you do great work there? Now he goes on to say it's good to know about multiple things. Some of the biggest discoveries come from noticing connections between different fields.

Speaker 1:

Develop a habit of working on your own projects. Don't let work mean something other people tell you to do. If you do manage to do great work one day, it will probably be on a project of your own. It may be within some big project, but you'll be driving your part of it. Now here's what I want to say on this part Follow your interest. That's what it comes down to. Follow your interest, because discoveries are made about yourself which you might not have originally seen. As you explore different avenues, as you see what's out there and you you are interested in, in trying new things.

Speaker 1:

But, um, ask yourself what you're curious about, and I love what he talks about. Like, don't let other people tell you what to work on. Like, yes, in a job that makes sense. Like you, you should. You both like you signed up to go work at this company and you have a dedicated job. In that sense, yes, but the podcast, that's a good example. No one's telling me how I should be running this.

Speaker 1:

Some people offer suggestions or feedback, which I really appreciate, but the thing is is I can do whatever I want. If I wanted to spend two hours talking about aliens and pyramids, guess what? I can do it. If I want to spend three talking about crocodiles and bears, I could and I mean that literally. I literally could sit down for three hours and talk about crocodiles and bears. If anyone knows me, they know that's true. But anyways, he goes on to say this what are you excessively curious about? Curious to a degree that would bore most other people. That's what you're looking for.

Speaker 1:

I went over and I wrote down things that I'm interested in, just to give you an idea. So what am I curious about? What am I interested in? I would say people, god Allie, running nutrition, business and coaching. Those are just a couple of things that I'm curious about. I'm curious about nutrition how can I improve that? Curious about coaching how can I improve my athlete's performance? I'm curious about business how do business work? How can I get better at it? How can I win this game? Like all these different things I'm asking myself like, do I have you know enough in me to focus on the things that I'm curious about and then hyper focus on them and fixate on them and really work at it? Because that's how you become great, that's how you do great work is you find what you really like and you double down on it and you just keep going. You are the consistent one. Don't let anyone else tell you what to do or anything like that. This is you, no one else. So think about that. Um.

Speaker 1:

Paul says this, um, when he's talking about, like, chasing ideas. But I will say this boldly chase outlier ideas, even if other people aren't interested in them. In fact, especially if they aren't. If you're excited about some possibility that everyone else ignores and you have enough expertise to say precisely what they're overlooking, that's a good bet, that, that, that as a good, that's as good a bet as you'll find. Sorry about that.

Speaker 1:

And then he goes on to say four steps. One choose a field. Two learn enough to get to the frontier. Three notice gaps. Four, explore promising ones. This is how practically everyone has done great work, from painters to physicists.

Speaker 1:

Now, the last part might not be particularly applicable to a lot of people, but I do think there's a really important piece about steps one and two. So you need to choose a field and then learn about it. Learn as much as you can. I recently just started a new position and pattern where I am going to be managing a team on our fulfillment side of things, and I've never dealt with fulfillment before. So what does that mean? I'm learning as much as I can to get to the frontier, so I can have conversations with people, so I can have confidence that our solution will help them all these things.

Speaker 1:

But knowledge is power. When people say that there's a reason they do, it's because it's true. If you are armed with knowledge, then you know what the truth is and people can try and refute you, but the truth is the truth and it doesn't change. Now what's kind of interesting is in this essay he talks about how we've been programmed, almost to be told what to do, focus on that and then expect ourselves to be happy with that outcome, and I'll jump into the essay and explain a little bit further. But he says the educational system is the most, in most countries, pretends it's easy. They expect you to commit to a field long before you could know what it's really like and, as a result, an ambitious person on an optimal trajectory will often read to the system as an instance of breakage. And then he continues on. He says they don't tell you, but I will.

Speaker 1:

When it comes to figuring out what to work on, you're on your own Extreme ownership. What does that mean? How do you figure that out? That's a good question. How do you figure out what to work on? I would say read books, watch YouTube videos, ask a lot of questions. Find people that you admire and spend time just asking them questions. Most of the time, people will agree and they'll be like yeah, you can call me, you can sit down, take me to a coffee shop, I don't care, ask me some questions. Most people will agree to that. If they don't, you probably don't want to spend time with them, to be honest. So be very careful about that, but ask a lot of questions. I would say listen to podcasts, podcasts, books, those kind of things just to kind of get your ideas flowing.

Speaker 1:

But going back to the essay, he says when in doubt, optimize for interestingness. Fields change as you learn more about them. What mathematicians do, for example, is very different from what you do in high school math classes, so you need to give different types of work a chance to show you what they're like. But a field should become increasingly interesting as you learn more about it. If it doesn't, it's probably not for you.

Speaker 1:

So there comes a time when you're going to have to be pretty honest with yourself and say do I like what I'm doing? Is there something else, maybe that I'm a little bit more interested in? Is there something else maybe that I'm a little bit more interested in? And I want to say this about that piece it's scary when you have those thoughts, because usually what that means is you're pushing yourself to change. And if you're in your career and you're feeling good about where you're at, and all of a sudden you're like maybe this isn't for me, that's a scary place to be, and I understand that because financial security, all these things. But in my opinion, life is a great adventure and we're supposed to be making memories that we want to keep with us forever and live life with those that we love and spend time with those that we enjoy, and spend time doing what we enjoy.

Speaker 1:

And if you're working nonstop and you don't find what you're doing interesting, I would say go back to the drawing board, ask yourself some real deep questions and, with whatever answer comes your way, don't be afraid to make a change. Sometimes those changes will lead to the biggest discoveries about yourself and the biggest opportunities, sometimes too. So all I'm trying to say is you know what? If you have been an accountant your whole life, you can switch, and I know it's easier said than done. I get that, but what I'm trying to say is we don't have a predestined thing that we're supposed to be. You've heard stories about doctors who go and they drop out of medical school because they absolutely hate it. Right, they thought they were signing up for something different but realized it wasn't what they were hoping for. Same thing goes for lawyers and business degree people and all that. So that's all I would say.

Speaker 1:

But on that same note, diving back into the essay, paul says this there are a lot of forces that will lead you astray when you're trying to figure out what to work on Pretentiousness, fashion, fear, money, politics, other people's wishes, eminent frauds. But if you stick to what you find genuinely interesting, you'll be proof against all of them. If you're interested, you're not astray. Listen to that last part. If you you're interested, you're not astray. Listen to that last part. If you're interested, you're not astray. So if you do what you want and you're excited about what you're doing, you're not on the wrong path. You are on your path. No one else's who's to say that they can tell you what you should be doing with your life. Unless you're doing something really stupid, you're on your own.

Speaker 1:

But don't go for prestige or anything like that. I know money is a big thing to chase and I understand that. But what I've learned is chasing those feelings leads to an empty life. Because you're chasing a number, you're chasing some figment of your imagination that you tell yourself when I get to that point, I'll be happy. And then you get there and you're still the same. There's an Alex Hormozy quote that says you told yourself you'd be happy when you got to where you're at now. That's pretty sad. So are you doing that? Are you telling yourself hey, you know what, when I get that new house, that's when I'll uh, I'll be pretty happy about life. Ask yourself those questions. Now.

Speaker 1:

He goes on to say this too I think for most people who want to do great work, the right strategy is not to plan too much. At each stage, do whatever seems most interesting and gives you the best options for the future. I call this approach staying upwind this is how most people who've done great work seem to have done it and to make it more relatable about this part, because it's huge. I really agree with what he's saying about you know, you don't necessarily have a plan. If something is interesting to you, just go, try and start.

Speaker 1:

And for me again, I'm just going to bring it back to running here but my genuine curiosity with running started with the question can I run a half marathon? That was it. That's where it all started Can I run a half marathon? Then I got sick and couldn't, but eventually I made it to Team Tim and team tim 2023 was my first ever official half marathon and I ran that and I instantly, as soon as I was done, said I wonder if I could do a full. I wonder if I could do a full marathon. That sounds crazy. A few months later I did june, I think, 8th, 2023 and I was pumped. I ran a few other races and then I was like, hey, you know what, maybe I can go sub three on my next marathon. And I did in february.

Speaker 1:

And so now I'm like I wonder if I can do an ultra and I just I'm not planning, I'm just seeing what I'm interested in and following that and it's leading me to these crazy races that I'm I'm signing up for, but you know what? That's part of the process and I'm excited for it. There's so much I don't know about it and I'm interested, I'm interested to see how I do and, um, that gets me excited and I get pumped about that as, like after after this ultra, it's the 50 miler, that's next and it just keeps going up and that's staying upwind. And so to Paul Graham's point don't necessarily plan too much, don't have a plan. Just go and do what you're excited about and the plan will follow. Almost always that's the case. If you're interested, just go, try and do your best at it and stay in the game.

Speaker 1:

Now I want to jump back into this part because I understand that the beginning is always the most challenging part, the start of anything that you do. Any goal, any business, any relationship. The beginning is always the hardest because you're trying to figure it out right. And so Paul says this it will probably be harder to start working than to keep working. Very true, you'll often have to trick yourself to get over that initial threshold. Don't worry about this. It's the nature of work, not a flaw in your character. Work has sort of an activation energy per day and per project, and since this threshold is fake in the sense that it's higher than the energy required to keep going, it's okay to tell yourself a lie corresponding magnitude to get over it. He goes on to say this it's usually a mistake to lie to yourself if you want to do great work, but this is one of the rare cases where it isn't.

Speaker 1:

When I'm reluctant to start work in the morning, I often trick myself by saying I'll just read over what I've got so far. Five minutes later I found something that seems mistaken or incomplete and I'm off. So pause there. He says a lot in those two paragraphs that I really want to focus on, the first being everyone has these feelings. Paul Graham, I think he's 60 or so, but he started Y Combinator. He is a billionaire, he knows what business works and he knows how to make people succeed. And so if this guy is saying, when I'm reluctant to start work in the morning, I often trick myself by saying I'll just read over what I've got so far. So if this guy even has to trick himself, it's okay. That's what I'm trying to say, because the start is always the hardest. But if you can trick yourself and just say, hey, maybe I'll just try it for like 10 minutes, and it goes back to the 10-minute rule where I introduced that in the few podcasts ago, where oftentimes I don't want to run but I do it for 10 minutes and then usually after 10 minutes I'm feeling really good and strong and then I just keep going.

Speaker 1:

But there's always a reluctant attitude in my head to start something, and that could be any time, like I work out in the morning and then I go to work. It takes activation, energy to shift from personal breath life to work life, and as soon as I get started, I just get started and just take off. Another example is whenever I read, like I have this book that I'm reading, I'm trying to finish it, but I always see it there and I'm like, ah, I'll, I'll pick it up sometime, and I keep telling myself that. But then as soon as I do pick it up and I start reading, I'll read like 50 pages, but it's it's always just overcoming the beginning and overcoming the start, and when you do it that's the hardest part and you'll keep going. So I think that's just an interesting way.

Speaker 1:

But he goes on to start talking about procrastination, which I think is a lot of. You know, we do face procrastination quite a bit, especially when we're going after ambitious goals, because we know how hard it is to get there and we know how much work it's going to take. And sometimes we try and delay that pain that we know we're going to feel for just a few more minutes of comfort, which I don't think is the right way to go. But Paul says this about that the way to beat it is to stop occasionally and ask yourself am I working on what I most want to work on? When you're young, it's okay if the answer is sometimes no, but it gets increasingly dangerous as you get older. So quick thing on that is your interest will help you overcome procrastination. The essay continues.

Speaker 1:

Great work happens by focusing consistently on something you're genuinely interested in. When you pause to take stock, you're surprised how far you've come. That's the key consistency. People who do great things don't get a lot done every day. They get something done rather than nothing. Now, how many times on this podcast have I said discipline and consistency are the ways to success? And Paul's saying that here too. He's saying if you can overcome that procrastination through discipline and overcome that initial period where you have to start and then you can just remain being consistent Because remember what he said, that oftentimes it's harder to start working than to keep working and so if you can overcome those two things and be disciplined and then start being consistent, I can guarantee you will be successful in whatever you're trying to accomplish. Because unless you're not hitting the goals or the milestones you're reaching for, I can guarantee you'll be successful. Discipline and consistency are the two principles that will get you anywhere you want in life. And he's saying that here, and I shout out to Paul Graham because that is a man after my own heart. I want to read that last piece again because it's freaking good. Here it is. That's the key. That's the key consistency.

Speaker 1:

People who do great things don't get a lot done every day. They get something done rather than nothing. So if there's a goal that you're not seeing a lot of progress on, let me know. If, uh, if you're not doing anything every day anyways, no, don't let me know, you're on your own, but here's the thing. So we're going to jump into this. He says this everyone knows to avoid distractions at work, but it's also important to avoid them in the other half of the cycle. When you let your mind wander, it wanders to whatever you care about most of the moment. So avoid the kind of distraction that pushes your work out of the top spot, or you'll waste this valuable type of thinking on the distraction instead.

Speaker 1:

Exception don't avoid love. I thought that was interesting that he made that as a note. Don't avoid love, because I think that's true. I think you need to have love in your life and if you don't, I am sorry, but hopefully you have people in your life that you surround yourself with that love you, and that you don't, I am sorry, but hopefully you have people in your life that you surround yourself with that love you and that you love, because that's where, in my opinion, happiness is actually found is in the relationships that we have with people, and if you're not nurturing those and you kind of let them go because you want to be the best at whatever you're trying to do and that's your sole focus, I think you'll be sad. So don't avoid love.

Speaker 1:

I agree with what he's saying there. He goes on to say and that is what you're aiming for. Well, here you go, and this is what John was talking about and I alluded to it in the beginning. So, anyways, let me jump in Consciously cultivate your taste in the work done in your field until you know which is the best and what makes it so. You don't know what you're aiming for. And that is what you're aiming for, because if you don't try to be the best, you won't even be good. It could be because ambition is a phenomenon where almost all the error is in one direction, where almost all the shells that miss the target miss by falling short. Or it could be because ambition to be the best is a qualitatively different thing from ambition to be good. Or maybe being good is simply too vague a standard. Probably all three are true. Fortunately, there's a kind of economy of scale here. Probably all three are true. Fortunately, there's a kind of economy of scale here.

Speaker 1:

Though it might seem like you'd be taking on a heavy burden by trying to be the best, in practice you often end up net ahead. It's exciting and also strangely liberating. It simplifies things. In some ways. It's easier to try to be the best than to try to merely be good. One way to aim high is to try to make something that people will care about in a hundred years, not because their opinions matter more than your contemporaries, but because something that still seems good in a hundred years is more likely to be genuinely good.

Speaker 1:

I made a note on this. Striving for your best means you are requiring yourself to be the best you can be in all circumstances, and that's what John was saying. That's the point that he was trying to make with. Like, when you come to pattern, you do your best work. And I love what Paul says. He says if you don't try to be the best, you won't even be good. That's a punch to the face. If you don't try to be the best, you won't even be good. That's a punch to the face. If you don't try to be the best, you won't be good. And he goes on. I just love this quote too.

Speaker 1:

Maybe being good is simply too vague a standard, or this one, um, it could be, because ambition to be the best is a qualitatively different thing from ambition to be good, and that's what I was trying to talk about a little bit earlier is, if you are, you know, going through the motions, you're not going to be the best, you won't even be good. So think about that. And, um, he goes on to talk about this, this next part, um, and he, I had a guys. I had to go read what this word meant. But affectation I don't know if anyone's ever heard that. Affectation means doing something artificial to impress other people. And he says this style is doing things in a distinctive way without trying to trying to is affectation. Affectation is, in effect, to pretend that someone other than you is doing the work.

Speaker 1:

You adopt an impressive but fake persona, and while you're pleased with the impressiveness, the fakeness is what shows in the work. The temptation to be someone else is the greatest for the young. They often feel like nobodies, but you never need to worry about that problem because it's self-solving. If you work on sufficiently ambitious projects, if you succeed at an ambitious project, you're not a nobody, you're the person who did it. So just do the work and your identity will take care of itself. Money I freaking love that one.

Speaker 1:

Don't try to impress other people, because that doesn't last and it leads to you feeling like a shell of a human being. I've done it before, but on this section I wrote be who you are on purpose. That is taken from Dr Phil and um. Be who you are on purpose because you offer strengths, you offer unique things about yourself that you can bring to the table that other people don't have. And, like he's saying, if you try and be other people, it'll come off as fake and you won't be able to accomplish great things because you're trying to be someone. You're not, but your unique abilities, your skill set. If you take that and you apply it to whatever you're trying to be someone, you're not, but your unique abilities, your skill set. If you take that and you apply it to whatever you're trying to do, something that you're interested in, you will succeed and you will excel. And what you do you won't be good, you're going to be the best, but it's because you are who you are and you're working on things that you actually like to work on. They go hand in hand, guys.

Speaker 1:

Now he also says this there may be some jobs where it's an advantage to be cynical and pessimistic, but if you want to do great work, it's an advantage to be optimistic, even though that means you'll risk looking like a fool. Sometimes there's a tradition of doing the opposite. The Old Testament says it's better to keep quiet lest you look like a fool. Sometimes there's a tradition of doing the opposite. The Old Testament says it's better to keep quiet lest you look like a fool. But that's advice for seeming smart. If you actually want to discover new things, it's better to take the risk of telling people your ideas. Now, what I wanted to focus on was this Optimism is an advantage. Now, don't look at the world with rose-colored glasses unless you actually want to. But being optimistic is an advantage, and I'm going to illustrate this by talking about running again.

Speaker 1:

But when I was on my run this morning, I had 24 miles that I needed to get done trails. There came a point to where I was just climbing this mountain and it's probably 80 degrees. I was out of water at the time and I didn't know how long this mountain was going to just keep going uphill. But it went uphill for about two and a half miles and I was struggling, I was dying, I was sweating. You could see the sweat dripping off my face falling into the dirt and I'm running past snakes, I'm running past a thousand lizards, all this stuff, and I was just feeling it. I was like there's no way I can keep going on this. This sucks.

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And I started to believe that until I paused, took a step back, quite literally, and then looked where I was and I was running in Utah in the summertime where everything is green, it's beautiful, there's snow-capped mountains. I'm running in the mountains, there's just a breeze that hits my face and cools me down Like there's a waterfall. I went and put my hat in, got it wet, like there's all these little beautiful things. But as soon as I started focusing on as cheesy as it is, the beauty of the earth and actually the benefit of being out there and getting some sun and moving my body and experiencing earth, that optimism carried me through the rest of the run and it was a little focus shift, but it helped me a lot more than thinking about oh man, I'm sweating so much I can't take another step, my blister on my toes about to pop. I can feel it Like, if you're telling yourself negative things and you're being a pessimist, it's going to be hard to keep that motivation going.

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But if you can find ways to be optimistic about the things that you're doing, even if you're in a rut, then I think you will have an advantage, because you can't ever lower yourself to a person that you don't like personally. If you don't like the person you're becoming, you're living a double life, one where you're trying to just convince yourself that the person that you're becoming is who you want to be, when you know deep down that that's not the case. So never lower yourself to a person that you don't like. And if you're pessimistic I think that happens quicker than you think Pessimism is a dangerous road to go down. So just be cautious about it and try to be optimistic, because that's where you will find a lot of success and really make strides.

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Paul also goes on to talk about this. He says indeed, in some kinds of work, it's good to strip whatever you're doing to its essence. The result will be more concentrated, you'll understand it better and you won't be able to lie to yourself about whether there's anything real there. Now the essence that he's trying to say is like break it down into its most simple form and try and understand that, and then, from there, you can concentrate on the other pieces. This essay, by the way, is about 28 pages long, so it's a pretty long one, but there's just a few other things that I want to highlight today. And the next piece hopefully it might be the next piece Let me double check.

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Anyways, I'm just running through and I think you can understand why I wanted to talk about this, because there's so much in it that doesn't just apply to startups or business, all these things that he's talking about. You can apply it to goals or family or anything like that. Be your best as a dad, okay. What does that mean? It means not being good. It means trying to be your best, and that means showing up for your kids, being there for your wife, helping out. Don't sit on the couch, you didn't earn that. Go help your family. Anyways, going back to curiosity and talking about that and this is like when you're thinking about what you want to try, think about this it's better to be promiscuously curious, to pull a little bit on a lot of threads and see what happens.

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Big things start small. The initial versions of big things were often just experiments or side projects or talks, which then grew into something bigger. So start lots of small things. Being prolific is underrated. The more different things you try, the greater the chance of discovering something new. Understand, though, that trying lots of things will mean trying lots of things that don't work. You can't have a lot of good ideas without also having a lot of bad ones, and there's a famous thomas edison quote that goes um, I don't look at the a thousand light bulbs that I made as a failure.

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He looks at them as just different versions and prototypes. And so that thing like, if you're going to be doing a lot of things, you're going to fail in a lot of them. And for me, what was that? This year? Piano, I wanted to try it. I started very, very small, and it wasn't for me.

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But you start small, you see if you like it or not, and then you move Um. But then he goes on and talk about risks. Or well, here it is. Actually, we're going to go talk about puzzles for a second, and then we'll go to risk. But, um, he says those two ideas fit together like two puzzle pieces. And what he means by this is he? He just talked about this whole thing of like you have to be curious and you have to um thing of like you have to be curious and you have to just try and find ways to improve.

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And I like the puzzle analogy because when you like, think about, when you sit down you build a 500 piece, 100 piece puzzle, whatever you sit down, you put all the pieces out and you find one and two that work and you're like, okay, cool, and you build off that right and it takes so much time and you're doing piece by piece to build this giant puzzle. But you don't see the actual image until all the pieces are in their correct places. And I was thinking about that and I was like you can say that same thing with consistency, like maybe one day you work on your goal, that's one puzzle piece. The second day you're there, that's another puzzle piece, until you get 500 days down the road and you can see the whole picture of what you just accomplished. So I like the puzzle analogy.

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But going into risk, he says this take as much risk as you can afford. In an efficient market, risk is proportionate to reward. So don't look for certainty, but for a bet with high expected value. If you're not failing occasionally, you're probably being too conservative. If you're not failing occasionally, you're probably being too conservative. I freaking love that, but that is very true. Take risk, try and take bets on yourself. Take risk, try and take bets on yourself. That's where confidence comes from, is doing hard things like that and taking risks. And if you show up and you do your best, then you'll see the reward.

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He goes on to start talking about advantages, and I wrote a note before going to this paragraph that I want to say everyone has advantages. What are the things you have as a competitive advantage? So, as I read this, I want you to think about that is what are your competitive advantages that you can use? So Paul says this the old also have the advantage of knowing which advantages they have. The young often have them without realizing it.

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The biggest is probably time. The young have no idea how rich they are in time. The best way to turn this time to advantage is to use it in a slightly frivolous way to learn about something you don't need to know about just out of curiosity, or try building something just because it would be cool, or to become freakishly good at something If you're young and you're looking for guidance, think about what Paul is saying here. The young have no idea how rich they are in time. The best way to turn this time to advantage is to use it in a slightly frivolous way, to learn about something you don't need to know about, just out of curiosity, or trying to build something because it would be cool, or to become freakishly good at something. So if you're young and you're looking for direction, here's my advice for you. I would say learn and learn about as much as you can Go. Like, put the phone down. Nothing matters on there really, besides maybe just staying in touch with family. But put the phone down and go explore your interests and see if you can find a curiosity and then double down on it.

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Um, paul goes on to say this One of the most valuable kinds of knowledge you get from experience is to know what you don't have to worry about. The young know all things that could matter, but not their relative importance. So they worry equally about everything, when they should worry much more about a few things and hardly at all about the rest. And you wonder why everyone says like our generation has so much anxiety. I think it's because of that, that right there, that we don't know what we don't need to worry about and we don't know what we need to focus on. And that only comes through learning and, um, through actual knowledge about the things that you want to do, the things that you're excited about. But this part is critical. This next part that Paul goes into, and when I first came across this part I was like that is a hundred percent true. Um, and I'll go into that story after I read this part from the essay.

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He says seek out the best colleagues. There are a lot of projects that can't be done alone, and even if you're working on one that can be, it's a good idea to have other people to encourage you and to bounce ideas off. Colleagues don't just affect your work, though. They also affect you. So work with people you want to become like, because you will. Boom, mike dropped that bad boy.

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Now, why is this important to me? Well, I Pattern's the best example of this. Honestly, like I didn't know the benefit of working with people who are genuinely smarter than you than when I went to pattern, because when I went to pattern, I was easily the dumbest person there, but it forced me to want to be better and all these people were encouraging me. They were teaching me how to do things. I was easily the dumbest person there, but it forced me to want to be better and all these people were encouraging me. They were teaching me how to do things. I was asking so many questions and they all made me better, and I'm hoping I can do the same for other people. But you become who you surround yourself with.

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I believe that and there's a lot of truth to it. I believe that and there's a lot of truth to it. Like, if you're spending so much time with people who are not as ambitious as you, that's going to rub off on you and your ambitious goals are going to die, which is scary. So another essay that Paul Graham wrote was called how not to die. The essay was all about how startups can be successful and what they should avoid, and one of the things that Paul said was ambitious people need to be around ambitious people or their ambition will fall off and die. And he says that's why Silicon Valley is a thing is because all these startup founders they all go there. They want to be around each other, because everyone's ambitious. They're all pushing each other to be better. There's a lot of truth to that. You become who you surround yourself with.

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Why the hell do you think I chose Allie as my wife Because she is phenomenally better than me in every aspect. She makes me want to be a better person. Alex Hormozy says that you need to have attributes, or your spouse needs to have attributes that you want, and Allie has every single one of them. She is so much better than me that it forces me to be better, because I don't want her to leave, I don't want her to go, and so I'm like I need to step up and be a better husband and, just, you know, do what I can to really make sure that she knows that I am growing with her. But she drives me to be better and she's there to support me, and it's a whole different lifestyle than when you're single. And I'm not trying to talk about the benefits of marriage or anything like that, but the point is, is I have someone in my corner that makes me want to be a better person every single day, even if that's just 1% better every single day. Better person every single day, even if that's just 1% better every single day. That 1% is going to compound Consistency compounds, but it's the truth, and so it might be hard.

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But take a step back and examine your current circle. Are there people that you know probably shouldn't be in there? And if they are, you're going to have to have some tough conversations. But after those hard conversations, like, go find the people that you need to surround yourself with and, caveat to that, it's very hard to go find people, I understand. But turn to social media. Find someone on LinkedIn, it doesn't matter. There's so many avenues that you can look to, to to change the people that you surround yourself with. And that's the other thing about the people that you surround yourself with is is they will push you to be better and that's going to rub off in your work.

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Um, now he talks about morale and he says this morale starts with your view on life. You're more likely to do great work if you're an optimist and more likely to more likely to if you think of yourself as lucky rather than if you think of yourself as a victim. So I wrote down attitude is everything. And going back to Rob Jones, who I had on this podcast, he always says own your attitude, because that's all you can. So own your attitude and like consistency.

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He says morale compounds via work. High morale helps you do good work, which increases your morale and helps you do even better work. But this cycle also operates in the other direction. If you're not doing good work, that can demoralize you and make it even harder to, since it matters so much for this cycle to be running in the other direction. If you're not doing good work, that can demoralize you and make it even harder to, since it matters so much for this cycle to be running in the right direction, it can be a good idea to switch to easier work when you're stuck, just so you get something done. So that's why it's important to demand your best.

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He goes on to say one of the biggest mistakes ambitious people make is to allow setbacks to destroy their morale all at once, like a balloon bursting. You can inoculate yourself against this by explicitly considering setbacks a part of your process. Solving hard problems always involves some backtracking. And then he says it's not necessarily a bad sign If work is a struggle, any more than it's a bad sign to be out of breath while running. It depends how fast you're running. So learn to distinguish good pain from bad pain. Good pain is a sign of effort. Bad pain is a sign of damage, but what he's trying to tell you is control your mind. Don't let yourself start being negative because, like that quote about consistency, your morale compounds too, which is interesting.

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But I believe him and I think it's the truth, and I know this podcast episode might have been a little bit different than some of the more recent ones that I've been doing. It's a little bit more detail oriented. But, like I said a few times, this podcast is something that I wish I knew these lessons when I was younger, and I wish I knew about the importance of surrounding yourself with the people that drive you to be better. I wish I knew about what it means to explore your curiosities and not being afraid to change that if that's the case. I used to be in marketing. Now I'm in sales because sales is more interesting to me.

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That's just one example, but there's so many things in this essay that I think you can apply to your life and I hope it was valuable, because you're not going to do your best work, you're not going to do great work, if you're not excited about the thing you're working on. And if you have to make a change, then that's okay. That's what life's about. Getting after it isn't just a phrase, it's a lifestyle, and sometimes you might have to get after other goals if that's more interesting than what you're currently doing. Be smart about it. Don't make any bad decisions for your family or for yourself, but don't be afraid to switch if you need to, and keep that ambition going. Nurture that morale. Don't let it fall, and be an optimist. All these things will lead you to do your best work and will lead you to do great things in life. Like I said, you can switch out the word projects, you can switch out the word work for goals, for anything but demand the best from yourself and that's what you'll get the very best. And as you bring that to the table, consistency compounds.

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Um, I appreciate everyone listening to this. I, uh, I'm having fun with this podcast. I'm, I'm learning more. Um, that's another thing that I'm doing is is exploring things like this. Like I'm interested in reading these essays and finding what I can tell you guys that's beneficial from my perspective, you know, and I hope that helps, and if it does, please share it with someone, please leave a review, give it a rating, whatever you want to do, but until next time, everyone keep getting after it. I'll talk to you soon.